SWMC Wiki - User contributions [en]

Porthkerry Country Park

2015-05-23T18:51:30Z

Steven Delaney: /* The old pegged route */

[[Contents]]

[[Bouldering]]

OS Explorer 151 - GR 086669

[[Image:Porthkerry Viaduct.jpg|800px|thumb|centre|Artistic shot of Porthkerry Viaduct from the car park area. Climbers can be seen on the Right Pillar if you look carefully]]

[[Image:Porthkerry3.JPG|400px|thumb|right|Steve Delaney enjoying another lap around Porthkerry Viaduct's right pillar]]

[[Image:Porthkerry2.JPG|400px|thumb|right|Joanna Jakubowska watching Gary Lewis make a tricky move on Porthkerry Viaduct's right pillar]]

[[Image:Porthkerry1.JPG|400px|thumb|right|Steve Delaney traversing the easier side of Porthkerry Viaduct's right pillar]]

== PREAMBLE ==

Porthkerry Park is a large, public country park on the coast of Barry in the Vale of Glamorgan in south Wales. It has fields, extensive woodland and nature trails, cliff-top pathways, a pebble-stone beach, and a small golf course. Architecturally, it is noted for its prominent viaduct crossed by a railway that served as a transportation for coal from the South Wales Valleys to the port in the 19th and 20th centuries. With the combination of green areas and the coastal location, the park is a popular destination for local primary schools taking their pupils on trips to study nature.

== ACCESS ==

'''Road''': Exit junction 33 of M4, onto A4232 and A4050 to Barry. Signs to Cardiff Airport 2nd roundabout left, Pontypridd Rd. Next roundabout 2nd exit, Park Crescent. At roundabout take 4th exit into Park Road, follow signs. There is ample free parking (although there may be a small charge Sundays and Bank Holidays).

'''Bus''': Contact Travel Line 0871 200 22 33 for local routes. Nearest stop All Saints Church approximately 15 mins walk.

'''Rail''': Nearest Station Barry Town, connections via Cardiff Central Tel: 08457 484950 for rail information.

A map to the whole of Porthkerry Country Park can be downloaded [http://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/living/environment/countryside/porthkerry_country_park.aspx HERE]. The park is maintained by a warden who has a residence at a quaint, old cottage along the main park road.

== THE ROUTES ==

===<div style="text-align: left;"> Right pillar </div>===
This is the obvious bridge pillar on the right as you walk from the car park along the worn track. The path runs past it on the the right.

'''Laps on the right pillar - 6a/b?'''

Looking for a quick pump? Then 10 laps of the pillar will ensure you eventually burn out. It gets easier as you learn the best holds.

'''The granite corners on the right pillar'''

Each of the four corners offer small problems of of their own. The idea being your ONLY allowed to use the granite blocks. Continue up until you get to the slabby blocks.

===<div style="text-align: left;"> The 6th tee! </div>===
This is the area located on the left by the 6th tee of the golf course. The routes here are generally a lot higher.

'''The granite corners on the 6th tee'''

Climb the granite blocks only until you reach the slabby blocks above. Try not to fall off these - they are high!

===<div style="text-align: left;"> The old pegged route - E2 5b ish </div>===
On the far far left there is actually an old pegged route located, more to the left, by a tree. It used to be climbable in the rain but the pegs are now old and NEED replacing. The lower off could be worse! You have been warned ...

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51.397854, -3.302872
[[Porthkerry Country Park]]
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Main Page

2015-05-23T18:46:52Z

Steven Delaney: /* Rock Climbing in South Wales */

[[Image:Swmc gb2.png|900px|center|alt=South Wales Mountaineering Club - Guidebook Wiki|link=]]

{| class="wikitable" style="width:1050px; float:centre; height:200px" border="1"
|-
!style="background-color: #6b8da2"| South Wales Latest News
|-
|
*'''May 2015 - [[Elephant_Wall|Ogmore]]. Peregrines nesting around [[Elephant Wall]] route, please avoid.'''
*'''July 2014 - [[Tyle y Coch]].''' Crag re-bolted with SWMC funded stainless bolts. The few unrestored easy routes remaining will require a dedicated clean before a re-bolt is considered worthwhile, volunteers?
*'''June 2014 - [[Treherbert|Trehebert Quarry]].''' Regeared and updated mountain crag, check out the page.
*'''August 2013 - [[Ton Pentre]]''' in the Rhonnda has had a regear. Respect the remaining projects please.
*'''July 2013 - [[Rhossili#Shipwreck Cove|Shipwreck Cove]]''' now open for business. You know the score, beach sport climbing for those tough enough (up to Fr.8b). Coming soon; easier routes for mortals!
*'''June 2013 - [[Sirhowy - Quarry Mawr]]''' has a new wall (9 routes, graded Fr.5+ to 7a+).
*'''May 2013 - [[Taffs Well Pinnacle]]''' - New limestone sport. - (New Routes grade Fr.4+ to Fr.6a).
*'''Major rockfall has affected the ''Terminal Overhang Wall'', at [[The Darren]], please avoid until further notice.'''

*'''NEW - [[Crag Maintenance|Crag Maintenance/Bolting Proposals]] page on wiki''' - to be used for BMC consultations.
*'''May 2012''' - '''[[Gelli]]''' A sunny sandstone crag in the Rhondda. Regeared with many new easier sports routes.
*'''April 2012''' - '''[[Tirpentwys]]''' regeared after recent vandalism.
*'''April 2012 - [[Senghenydd]]''' - New sport climbing venue near Caerphilly with short walk-in. - (Fr.4 to fr.6b+).
*'''April 2012 - [[Paviland Far Far West]]''' - Sported up for your delight. - (11 routes from Fr.6a+ to fr.6c).
*'''April 2012 - [[Oakdale]]''' - New Sandstone Quarry. - (19 New Routes grade Fr.5 to Fr.6b+).

|}
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/>

== Rock Climbing in South Wales ==

Historically overshadowed by its further neighbour, Pembroke, some of the best routes in the UK are located within S.E. Wales and Gower. It's worth a visit or ten! The climbing ranges from 'exciting' to well bolted sport climbs on limestone or sandstone. There is something for everyone. The climbing can be split into 4 sections: [[Gower|Gower Peninsula]], [[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E Wales Sandstone]], [[Inland Limestone]] & [[Bridgend Area]]:

'''[[Gower|Gower]]''' is set in one of the most beautiful coastal areas of Wales and contains many fine trad routes from V.Diffs to the upper Extremes. If trad isn't your thing, then there are some steep caves and quarries dedicated to sport climbing! The crags are mostly in relaxed (and scenic) positions with some regionally important routes.

'''[[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E. Wales Sandstone]]''' climbing is on the hard indurated sandstone of the [[wikipedia:South_Wales_coalfield|South Wales Coalfield]]. Generally this means either bolted routes in quarries, or pleasant natural (non-bolted) outcrops. The quarries range from small bites in the hillside to huge monolithic wastelands. Crags are often remnants of the industrial heritage belonging to the South Wales valleys ... but there is something actually pleasant about all this!

'''[[Inland Limestone]]''' can contrast in character quite radically. For example, inland sport climbing on steep and solid natural limestone may be found at [[Dinas Rock]], whilst vertical to slabby quarried rock is in plentiful supply around [[Taffs Well]], just off the M4, north of Cardiff.

'''[[Bridgend Area]]''' is for those with salt water in their veins. Coastal bolt clipping can be found at [[Witches Point]], or at the other end of the adventure spectrum there is nationally important [[Ogmore]], which like Marmite ... you will either love or hate.

== Bouldering in South Wales ==
South Wales [[bouldering]] is yet to be developed to the level of North Wales, or the peak, yet it offers a fine spectrum of climbing for experienced and novice boulderers alike. [[Kennelgarth Wall]] at Dinas offers some great safe problems rewarding strength and subtle technique. [[The Trench]] at Ogmore is unique - grit shapes without friction. [[Bouldering in Gower]] gives the climber a 'mine' of easier problems - and some hard ones - with the additional attractions of swimming and jumping at high tide.

The guide is far from complete but is complemented by [http://www.swbg.co.uk www.swbg.co.uk]. One of the problems is that we keep discovering nice new areas to boulder at!

== How You Can Get Involved ==
Anyone interested in rock-climbing and bouldering is welcome to get involved in the development of this wiki.

We are interested in recruiting editors to update pages and to supply news and photographs. The only requirements are that you have something of interest that you are willing to share and that you can work together with other editors to produce an up-to-date and useful resource for climbers both in S. Wales and further afield.

If you are interested, '''[[Special:UserLogin/signup|create yourself an account]]'''.

'''N.B.''' New users should note that:
*'''both''' your ''username'' '''and''' ''password'' are case-sensitive.
*your username should take the form of your real ''Full Name''. e.g. '''Fred Bloggs''', etc..

For furthur info, contact '''[mailto:craginfo@skyhook.ath.cx SMWC Craginfo]'''

__NOTITLE__
__NOTOC__
<div style="display: none;"><a href="http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/hpot/unionistwidow.php">publisher-social</a></div>

Talk:Morlais Quarries

2014-08-30T12:50:06Z

Steven Delaney:

Nice photo! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:29, 27 August 2010 (BST)

We just need to photoshop in a burnout car at the bottom, or maybe some chavs breaking into a car and it's perfect! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 13:49, 30 August 2014 (BST)

Talk:Morlais Quarries

2014-08-30T12:49:53Z

Steven Delaney:

Nice photo! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:29, 27 August 2010 (BST)
We just need to photoshop in a burnout car at the bottom, or maybe some chavs breaking into a car and it's perfect! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 13:49, 30 August 2014 (BST)

File talk:Barland topo.jpg

2014-07-13T10:23:04Z

Steven Delaney:

Good topo, makes me want to return. was put off by last time I visited, when it was windy and hence bitterly cold.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 09:52, 8 July 2014 (BST)

I went there on the way home and it was lovely in the sun. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 11:23, 13 July 2014 (BST)

Talk:South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-28T22:15:39Z

Steven Delaney:

Which reminds me, Roy Thomas claimed a line on Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. Apparently this freezes every 20 or so years! - alan

Get it wrote up :) I don't think there's a record of ascents in S.Wales anywhere else. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 19:38, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll leave that to Roy. - Alan

Cheers for the update. Also whilst on topic do we know where the new routes book from 'Up and Under' has gone? I've been trying to chase it up for the winter routes but have come to a dead end now. Is it really lost? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 17:57, 20 December 2010 (GMT)

No worries - Roy passed it on the other day. I saw the book about 7 or 8 yeras ago, I think I wrote in it. No clues to it's curent whereabouts though. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 08:50, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

There seem to be some winter climbing topos "on sale" in Up N Der are the funds for the SWMC or others??--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] 21:25, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

I made the topos Roy. Although I paid to get two lots printed - I've not seen a penny back yet. The plan was to put any profit into making the winter guide, which I'm also working on. See the Facebook page for more info. :( --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 17:15, 2 November 2013 (GMT)

In other news - I can't edit anything on the wiki anymore. I still intend to contribute ... --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 17:15, 2 November 2013 (GMT)
: I haven't changed anything... I'll try to find out why... will get back to you shortly. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 17:20, 2 November 2013 (GMT)
:: Try now... you had 'editor' permissions only and that would mean that some pages are restricted. Try now. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 17:23, 2 November 2013 (GMT)
::: Works fine now - cheers. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 17:34, 2 November 2013 (GMT)

Any chance of getting some maps on these pages? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 22:15, 28 November 2013 (GMT)

South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:41:06Z

Steven Delaney: /* The Brecon Beacons */

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

3.5 '''[[Craig Cwm-du]] *''' OS 160 9463 2130

Numerous ice features can form over the escarpment after a good freeze, with the main stream providing a good multi-pitch grade III+ 4** ice route. To the left of the main stream are a number of low grade ice gullies. To the right of the main stream are a number of steeper ice routes on the main cliff, with future mixed potential as well? The crag can be accessed by walking over the hill from RAC corner or from the road on the east side.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

[[Category:Winter Climbing]]
[[Category:Gower and South East Wales]]

Talk:South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:34:52Z

Steven Delaney:

Talk:South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:34:37Z

Steven Delaney:

South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:33:38Z

Steven Delaney: /* The Brecon Beacons */

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

3.5 '''[[Craig Cwm-du]] *''' OS 160 9463 2130

Numerous ice features can form over the escarpment after a good freeze, with the main stream providing a good multi-pitch grade IV 4** ice route. to the left of the main stream are a number of low grade ice gullies. to the right of the main stream are a number of steeper ice routes on the main cliff, with future mixed potential as well? Crag can be accessed by walking over the hill from RAC corner.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

[[Category:Winter Climbing]]
[[Category:Gower and South East Wales]]

South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:33:18Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

3.5 '''[[Craig Cwm-du]] *''' OS 160 9463 2130
Numerous ice features can form over the escarpment after a good freeze, with the main stream providing a good multi-pitch grade IV 4** ice route. to the left of the main stream are a number of low grade ice gullies. to the right of the main stream are a number of steeper ice routes on the main cliff, with future mixed potential as well? Crag can be accessed by walking over the hill from RAC corner.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

[[Category:Winter Climbing]]
[[Category:Gower and South East Wales]]

South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:32:36Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

3.5 '''[[Craig Cwm-du]] *''' OS 160 9463 2130
Numerous ice features can form over the escarpment after a good freeze, with the main stream providing a good multi-pitch grade IV 4** ice route. to the left of the main stream are a number of low grade ice gullies. to the right of the main stream are a number of steeper ice routes on the main cliff, with future mixed potential as well? Crag can be accessed by walking over the hill from RAC corner.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

[[Category:Winter Climbing]]
[[Category:Gower and South East Wales]]

Talk:Dyfryn Woods Crag

2013-11-02T17:22:34Z

Steven Delaney: Reverted edits by Steven Delaney (talk) to last revision by Tim Hoddy

Am I correct in thinking the crag name should be Dyffryn with 2 F's?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 10:14, 17 July 2013 (BST)

I'm not sure you are correct,that's the welshy way you'd expect it to be spelled but the heritage trust notice board on site spells it that way so that's what I changed it to,so a single F it is.The woody truss info board designer is probably an English man(sorry -person )though--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)

I think you are right, its the anglicised version of the name, shoddy too. Duffrin would be more appropriate. otherwise its a hash of both welsh and english pronounciation. Now it just looks like its pronounced Duvrin. And no I'm not an anti-english type, the missus is from Taunton.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 11:09, 17 July 2013 (BST)

: And I'm from Essex (in case you couldn't tell)... altho' I realise you don't the hold the same affection for me as you do Mrs Rosier ! ;-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:10, 17 July 2013 (BST)

Next time you go get some pre noon sun on crag topo shots and follow/avoid sun as it moves down the crag.Take a strimmer or whacker to clear the nettles and do the routes right of Baggle Brook Affair there's more shade in the morning.--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)

: No idea. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 10:28, 17 July 2013 (BST)

A great little shady summer crag. The page is awful though. Can we improve on it?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 23:18, 15 July 2013 (BST)

==Map==

Parking at Farm: SN (2)73048 (2)00363 / 51.687630 -3.8379192

Parking at car park: SS (2)73752 (1)99957 / 51.684134 -3.8275927

Crag: SN (2)72784 (2)00032 / 51.684596 -3.8416100

==Photos==

Here's some pics as discussed. Who is doing the topos?--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 21:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mate, looks better than I imagined. I've cobbled some piccies together using free version of autostitch. Topo, hmmm, maybe I had best to link it to Gary G's site for the mo, I have no info at all on this crag.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 10:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I've got Roy's Topo - but really we should discuss it with him--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 20:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll send him an e-mail to ask if it's ok.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 07:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Roy's ok with that, go ahead.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 16:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Get on with it. If stuff i've sent you is lost let me know so I can send more. -Roy Thomas

Hey Alan and Del... This page is looking really good. Well done!! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers, getting there with Roy's help.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 18:16, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

==Access==

Miles just informed me that the landowner - the Woodland Trust has sent a very irate letter regarding this crag. Suggest we hold off climbing there until the matter is resolved. The BMC have been informed.--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 12:13, 12 October 2010 (BST)

The reasons were not specifically clear but between the lines it appears their beef is...

1) People were driving up the private road to the crag.

2) Paying groups were using the cliff.

3) They wish to store logs in this area.

All quite reasonable. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 15:09, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Just an official update on the access situation [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4091 from the BMC ] --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:13, 22 January 2011 (GMT)

Baggle Brook belay sorted over a year ago so comment not needed.
Woodland trust placated but adventure centre and camarthen college need to stop driving up there as they wind up the problem again.

OK Roy.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 22:21, 8 June 2011 (BST) BTW You signature and timestamp comments by pressing the penultimate grey icon button (looks like a bit of squiggly signature)at the top of the dialogue input box(?) before you save page.

== Dyfryn posher topos and first ascents list ==

Hey Tim can't remember if I used my pics or Delaneys but wan't me to hunt out blanks or maybe you have some.Does it have to be the exact pic that you have the old wikki topos drawn on?It's hard to get lost following consecutive line of bolts.Did Al take some happy climbing snaps.By the way it's in the sun a.m shade pm.
:Started to rewrite first ascents list but thought "hang on I've already done this". We deleted it when the Woody Truss boys kicked off,if it's lurking in some magic somewhere wave your wand and re-instate it failing that I'll rewrite tit--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:37, 16 July 2013 (BST)

I didn't take pics. Forgot the camera - DOH!--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 13:29, 16 July 2013 (BST)

: Yes happy to do some topos... but please only if you have the same picure for the blank and proto-topo. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 15:21, 16 July 2013 (BST)
:Hunting for the originals but not much success,may have to get some more,can't remember who did those topos(think some pics are mine some Del boys) but I sent them the proto scrawls.Can u do some searchy magic to see who it was and maybe they have lingering images.--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)
Your welcome to use mine. Same goes for all I put on here. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 20:30, 23 July 2013 (BST)
:Send them on over I'll Knock up some more proto topos for the maestro Tim.Thanks Del--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 08:43, 24 July 2013 (BST)

== Old Photos ==

Hi Tim have you got any of Del's old pics of Dyfryn archived so I can topo-ise--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 13:46, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: I don't think so. If Del uploaded them to the wiki at any time they can probably be found. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 14:20, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: Have you seen this page Roy ? You can see further pages by clicking on the 'forward' graphic at the bottom. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 15:00, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: A load of unused graphics on this page... including some blank (but very small) Dyfryn ones. http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php?title=Special:UnusedFiles&limit=500&offset=0 --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 18:37, 28 July 2013 (BST)
:Found those Dyfryn pics but they are small.Are they good enough to use for new style topos or shall I wait for bigger new ones to be taken.Advice Tim??--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 14:02, 29 July 2013 (BST)

:: I think they are too small. We'd only have to do them again. Perhaps we could ask you-know-who to take the photos and mark the lines! ;-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 14:07, 29 July 2013 (BST)

Talk:South Wales Winter Climbs

2013-11-02T17:15:58Z

Steven Delaney:

Talk:Dyfryn Woods Crag

2013-08-09T10:53:55Z

Steven Delaney: /* Dyfryn posher topos and first ascents list */

Am I correct in thinking the crag name should be Dyffryn with 2 F's?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 10:14, 17 July 2013 (BST)

I'm not sure you are correct,that's the welshy way you'd expect it to be spelled but the heritage trust notice board on site spells it that way so that's what I changed it to,so a single F it is.The woody truss info board designer is probably an English man(sorry -person )though--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)

I think you are right, its the anglicised version of the name, shoddy too. Duffrin would be more appropriate. otherwise its a hash of both welsh and english pronounciation. Now it just looks like its pronounced Duvrin. And no I'm not an anti-english type, the missus is from Taunton.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 11:09, 17 July 2013 (BST)

: And I'm from Essex (in case you couldn't tell)... altho' I realise you don't the hold the same affection for me as you do Mrs Rosier ! ;-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:10, 17 July 2013 (BST)

Next time you go get some pre noon sun on crag topo shots and follow/avoid sun as it moves down the crag.Take a strimmer or whacker to clear the nettles and do the routes right of Baggle Brook Affair there's more shade in the morning.--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)

: No idea. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 10:28, 17 July 2013 (BST)

A great little shady summer crag. The page is awful though. Can we improve on it?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 23:18, 15 July 2013 (BST)

==Map==

Parking at Farm: SN (2)73048 (2)00363 / 51.687630 -3.8379192

Parking at car park: SS (2)73752 (1)99957 / 51.684134 -3.8275927

Crag: SN (2)72784 (2)00032 / 51.684596 -3.8416100

==Photos==

Here's some pics as discussed. Who is doing the topos?--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 21:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mate, looks better than I imagined. I've cobbled some piccies together using free version of autostitch. Topo, hmmm, maybe I had best to link it to Gary G's site for the mo, I have no info at all on this crag.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 10:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I've got Roy's Topo - but really we should discuss it with him--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 20:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll send him an e-mail to ask if it's ok.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 07:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Roy's ok with that, go ahead.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 16:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Get on with it. If stuff i've sent you is lost let me know so I can send more. -Roy Thomas

Hey Alan and Del... This page is looking really good. Well done!! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers, getting there with Roy's help.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 18:16, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

==Access==

Miles just informed me that the landowner - the Woodland Trust has sent a very irate letter regarding this crag. Suggest we hold off climbing there until the matter is resolved. The BMC have been informed.--[[User:Chris Wyatt|Chris Wyatt]] 12:13, 12 October 2010 (BST)

The reasons were not specifically clear but between the lines it appears their beef is...

1) People were driving up the private road to the crag.

2) Paying groups were using the cliff.

3) They wish to store logs in this area.

All quite reasonable. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 15:09, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Just an official update on the access situation [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4091 from the BMC ] --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:13, 22 January 2011 (GMT)

Baggle Brook belay sorted over a year ago so comment not needed.
Woodland trust placated but adventure centre and camarthen college need to stop driving up there as they wind up the problem again.

OK Roy.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 22:21, 8 June 2011 (BST) BTW You signature and timestamp comments by pressing the penultimate grey icon button (looks like a bit of squiggly signature)at the top of the dialogue input box(?) before you save page.

== Dyfryn posher topos and first ascents list ==

Hey Tim can't remember if I used my pics or Delaneys but wan't me to hunt out blanks or maybe you have some.Does it have to be the exact pic that you have the old wikki topos drawn on?It's hard to get lost following consecutive line of bolts.Did Al take some happy climbing snaps.By the way it's in the sun a.m shade pm.
:Started to rewrite first ascents list but thought "hang on I've already done this". We deleted it when the Woody Truss boys kicked off,if it's lurking in some magic somewhere wave your wand and re-instate it failing that I'll rewrite tit--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:37, 16 July 2013 (BST)

I didn't take pics. Forgot the camera - DOH!--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 13:29, 16 July 2013 (BST)

: Yes happy to do some topos... but please only if you have the same picure for the blank and proto-topo. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 15:21, 16 July 2013 (BST)
:Hunting for the originals but not much success,may have to get some more,can't remember who did those topos(think some pics are mine some Del boys) but I sent them the proto scrawls.Can u do some searchy magic to see who it was and maybe they have lingering images.--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (BST)
Your welcome to use mine. Same goes for all I put on here. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 20:30, 23 July 2013 (BST)
:Send them on over I'll Knock up some more proto topos for the maestro Tim.Thanks Del--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 08:43, 24 July 2013 (BST)

I'm in the Lofoten Islands for a few weeks, but I'll send them over when I get back. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 11:53, 9 August 2013 (BST)

== Old Photos ==

Hi Tim have you got any of Del's old pics of Dyfryn archived so I can topo-ise--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 13:46, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: I don't think so. If Del uploaded them to the wiki at any time they can probably be found. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 14:20, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: Have you seen this page Roy ? You can see further pages by clicking on the 'forward' graphic at the bottom. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 15:00, 25 July 2013 (BST)

: A load of unused graphics on this page... including some blank (but very small) Dyfryn ones. http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/index.php?title=Special:UnusedFiles&limit=500&offset=0 --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 18:37, 28 July 2013 (BST)
:Found those Dyfryn pics but they are small.Are they good enough to use for new style topos or shall I wait for bigger new ones to be taken.Advice Tim??--[[User:Roy thomas|Roy thomas]] ([[User talk:Roy thomas|talk]]) 14:02, 29 July 2013 (BST)

:: I think they are too small. We'd only have to do them again. Perhaps we could ask you-know-who to take the photos and mark the lines! ;-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 14:07, 29 July 2013 (BST)

Talk:Dyfryn Woods Crag

2013-07-23T19:30:10Z

Steven Delaney: /* Dyfryn posher topos and first ascents list */

File talk:Rob1at tww.png

2013-07-09T06:45:08Z

Steven Delaney:

This is somewhat 'different' from what I remember! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:45, 1 July 2013 (BST)

Ah, yes. That will be because we used photoshop to slightly increase the colour saturation. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] ([[User talk:Alan rosier|talk]]) 14:28, 3 July 2013 (BST)

Right, in that case I better sell up and move back!! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:45, 9 July 2013 (BST)

Talk:Development

2013-07-01T06:53:54Z

Steven Delaney: /* Photos For Editing Page */

==Photos For Editing Page==
I've decided to put up the high res versions of the photos I took and also the editable files of the topos I've done (either Inkscape or Paint.Net) so people can edit them if they want. Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6nrbp5ws5njdj --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 17:04, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Good idea. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:52, 30 July 2010 (BST)

:Tom, it would be better if you were to upload the originals to the wiki and then make a page entitled, "Thumbnails Awaiting" - containing (you'd never guess) thumbnails of either 'works in progress' or 'completed topos'. In this way, folks are more likely to see them and more likley to get working. When finished they can be linked from the appropriate crag page. Space problem? We need to up our quota on the server! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:30, 31 July 2010 (BST)

:Yeah I agree (and to be honest I'd probably fall behind with keeping that mediafire page updated), I'm just thinking of terms of saving space. The shot I took of Giants Cave for example was about 20 photos stitched together (from a 10MP camera), which ended up being a 180MB file. Space isn't an issue for me on my desktop but I don't want to be uploading files of that size if server space is limited. Hows the server paid for by the way? Is it out of your own pockets or more through SWMC? --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 02:33, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Hmmm... 180Mb is a bit big. If an image is, say, over 10MB, then a small thumbnail and link to the mediafire d/load would do the trick. The SWMC pay for the site. We have a quota of 500MB but we are on 744MB at the moment! I would fear an imminent email but the blokes running running the server seem so laid back!

:Just to add the www.mediafire.com link above no onger displays a file. The site might be unreliable in the long term? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:46, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

:: '''The above is pretty much 'out-of-date'. Tom Dudley seems to have disappeared and we are no longer doing things that way.''' --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:58, 23 May 2013 (BST)

::: Are we all uploading them here now? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:53, 1 July 2013 (BST)

===Thumbnails page accessible?===

I've been thinking of a way of making the thumbnails page accessible but yet unobtrusive. We could have a small link from the bottom of the main page entitled, [[Development]]. That would take us to the developers' guide, thumbnails, photos wanted, list of suitable software, etc. Could even make it readable only by signed up users. Any thoughts? Alan, Tom, Chris, Steve, etc? --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:57, 31 July 2010 (BST)

I've just spotted this. I like the idea of getting to a developers' guide easily. There are already various pages I use lots when writing new pages; i.e. page templates or image tags. That said i'd preffer unobtrusive as I hate bloat. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:37, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Topo Standards==
Sounds like a pretty good idea and I like the page. Yeah biggest issues as I see it is A) Space B) Consistency. I am knocking a few topos out for sports crags. I'm using dashed lines for the route line colour co-ordinating it <6b Purple/pink, 6b-6c+ red, 7a-7b orange/yellow, >7b black/blue. A similar scheme would be applicable for trad but requiring another lower grade colour (green I guess) for the severe grades. Numbers of routes in same colours. It's easy to chnge these around using inkscape if routes get re-numbered or re-graded. However, if we are using different programmes we would be a little restricted. Ideas?

===Software to use?===
{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Sport
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < 6a+
| Green
|-
| 6b-6c
| Orange
|-
| 7a-7b
| Red
|-
| >7b+
| Dark blue
|}

{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Trad
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < to HVS
| Green
|-
| E1 to E3
| Orange
|-
| > E4 to E5
| Red
|-
| > E5
| Dark Blue
|}

Complete the above as you see fit. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 22:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

We need to develop some formal standards for topos. This will make it easier for editors to create their own topos and update those created by others. I think this bit is going to be hard work! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:56, 23 May 2013 (BST)

If you guys can make a final decision on this, I can mirror the format in the winter guide and provide and an area with clear consistency. I'm using Adobe Illustrator to draw my lines and designing the book in Adobe InDesign. The learning curve is steep but the final results are professional. Is it ok to add a winter table here?. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:51, 1 July 2013 (BST)

==OpenStreetMap and Printing==

I've been having a play about with this for the winter guide as I noted that Pesda Press now use it to good effect. The main difficulty i've been having with it is actually getting an image that is custumised to how I want it, especially in Windows. It can be done with some serious timeconsuming coding but we need to find something that is simple to use.

The best i've got to date is via using an app called 'Kosmos' but this now has ceased to be developed further. 'Maperitive' is a successor to 'Kosmos' but is still under development and can only be used via a command line.

I've also found an app called 'Merkaartor' but have not really played about with it yet. Will let you know on progress. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:11, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve... Have a look at [[Maps_test]]. It's easy to use. If you want a gps data manager, you could use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] - it does OpenStreetMaps, etc. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:27, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I've just been using Windows Viking-0.9.8.0.exe as this was the only compiled version I could get working on my Win7 desktop. In short it seems a powerful tool that I have no idea how to acquire a map with? I tried File>Acquire>From GPS/From Google Maps... As i'm trying to avoid being sued by Google I assume I need to add a new GeoRef map layer somehow? No other options seems to import from OpenStreetMap on the fly. '''EDIT''' --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:39, 21 December 2010 (GMT): I've now figured out you can add a map by going to 'Layers>New Map Layer>OSM(cycle). The others don't seem to work tho.

I'd wish i'd have known about the [[Maps_test]] page earlier ... it would have saved hours of time searching for which free maps to use! I can see how the 'Extension:Maps' works here, on the wiki, but when looking at printing in the actual guidebook we need to steer right away from Google due to legal reasons - right?

Further playing about with the 'Maperitive' app has proved to be the nearest to the mark I have found. Firstly it is legal to use for commercial use; i.e. printing a guidebook. It allows easy downloads of OSM data from within the app via one click. It also allows Exports to Bitmap (.png) and SVG (for Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator). You can also easily generate Relief Contours, Hillshading and Tinting via a few simple clicks if needed.

Now i'm learning here but I have invested a lot if time searching for the winter guide maps, so would be VERY interested how something else could trump this? I know there is a load of apps out there that do better but take hundreds of man hours to master and get right. Will I be able to get to grips with the Viking app quickly if it is better? I'm not a GIS scientist and I haven't got much time. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:19, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve, the 'Maps' extension can work with many different layers, google maps, google-satellite, OpenStreetMap (various renderings), bing, yahoo, etc., etc. On the Wiki, we can can configure our maps to use (and only use) those that have no commercial 'baggage'.

: I'm installing maperitive now and, from look at its website, it seems powerful and a more suited to your needs than viking. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:12, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm just thinking of the final publication I guess. Let me know how you get on with Maperitive vs Viking? Your in a better position to know. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 17:52, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Yep, maperitive probably best for producing customised static maps suitable for publication. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 18:18, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

Nice one Tim. Worth knowing for sure! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 19:13, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

==Drawing lines on topos with Adobe Illustrator==

I'm pretty handy with most of the Adobe Creative Suite but new to Adobe Illustrator. I'm keen to stick with the Adobe theme and know it can be easier with third party apps to draw lines, i.e. Inkscape for example. How would I get started with drawing topo lines on photos with it? What's the tools/brushes of choice here? Anyone here using it? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:42, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm using Inkscape which is very good in my opinion.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 07:47, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

Just to add to the mix ... I was browsing the web last night to see what the yanks do. Adobe Illustrator seems to be the tool of choice for decent quality topos, although i'm still at a loss how to get started with it.
Anyhow, I also came across a very small app called [http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/above/betacreator_-_new_tool_for_making_perfect_climbing_topos BetaCreator] that, although pretty basic, can be used in minutes to produce a topo on the fly.
The program works much like a simplified photo editing program but with tools specifically designed for creating topos for climbing routes. Can be used on both PC and Mac. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Photo DPI when ready for printing==

Just to share a few problems i've encounterd after meeting with the pinters for the winter guide. As well as width and height; photos need to be sized at '''300 DPI'''. With this finer resolution any lines you draw on will be less likely to pixellate (there are couple of horrible examples of pixellation in the Gower and SE Wales guide where lines were drawn on 72 or 96 DPI images and you can see the ‘steps’). Whatever images you send to the printer will need to be at this resolution anyway for the printing process ...

I am saving the final images, to send to the printer, as a '''300 DPI .TIFF''' because that’s the resolution that the printing processes work to. You’ll find that working at 300 DPI on screen will mean you see what you are going to get. Computer resolution and print resolution are different. Just as well to know in advance.
--[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

Talk:Development

2013-07-01T06:52:14Z

Steven Delaney: /* Software to use? */

==Photos For Editing Page==
I've decided to put up the high res versions of the photos I took and also the editable files of the topos I've done (either Inkscape or Paint.Net) so people can edit them if they want. Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6nrbp5ws5njdj --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 17:04, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Good idea. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:52, 30 July 2010 (BST)

:Tom, it would be better if you were to upload the originals to the wiki and then make a page entitled, "Thumbnails Awaiting" - containing (you'd never guess) thumbnails of either 'works in progress' or 'completed topos'. In this way, folks are more likely to see them and more likley to get working. When finished they can be linked from the appropriate crag page. Space problem? We need to up our quota on the server! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:30, 31 July 2010 (BST)

:Yeah I agree (and to be honest I'd probably fall behind with keeping that mediafire page updated), I'm just thinking of terms of saving space. The shot I took of Giants Cave for example was about 20 photos stitched together (from a 10MP camera), which ended up being a 180MB file. Space isn't an issue for me on my desktop but I don't want to be uploading files of that size if server space is limited. Hows the server paid for by the way? Is it out of your own pockets or more through SWMC? --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 02:33, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Hmmm... 180Mb is a bit big. If an image is, say, over 10MB, then a small thumbnail and link to the mediafire d/load would do the trick. The SWMC pay for the site. We have a quota of 500MB but we are on 744MB at the moment! I would fear an imminent email but the blokes running running the server seem so laid back!

:Just to add the www.mediafire.com link above no onger displays a file. The site might be unreliable in the long term? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:46, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

:: '''The above is pretty much 'out-of-date'. Tom Dudley seems to have disappeared and we are no longer doing things that way.''' --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:58, 23 May 2013 (BST)

===Thumbnails page accessible?===

I've been thinking of a way of making the thumbnails page accessible but yet unobtrusive. We could have a small link from the bottom of the main page entitled, [[Development]]. That would take us to the developers' guide, thumbnails, photos wanted, list of suitable software, etc. Could even make it readable only by signed up users. Any thoughts? Alan, Tom, Chris, Steve, etc? --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:57, 31 July 2010 (BST)

I've just spotted this. I like the idea of getting to a developers' guide easily. There are already various pages I use lots when writing new pages; i.e. page templates or image tags. That said i'd preffer unobtrusive as I hate bloat. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:37, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Topo Standards==
Sounds like a pretty good idea and I like the page. Yeah biggest issues as I see it is A) Space B) Consistency. I am knocking a few topos out for sports crags. I'm using dashed lines for the route line colour co-ordinating it <6b Purple/pink, 6b-6c+ red, 7a-7b orange/yellow, >7b black/blue. A similar scheme would be applicable for trad but requiring another lower grade colour (green I guess) for the severe grades. Numbers of routes in same colours. It's easy to chnge these around using inkscape if routes get re-numbered or re-graded. However, if we are using different programmes we would be a little restricted. Ideas?

===Software to use?===
{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Sport
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < 6a+
| Green
|-
| 6b-6c
| Orange
|-
| 7a-7b
| Red
|-
| >7b+
| Dark blue
|}

{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Trad
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < to HVS
| Green
|-
| E1 to E3
| Orange
|-
| > E4 to E5
| Red
|-
| > E5
| Dark Blue
|}

Complete the above as you see fit. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 22:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

We need to develop some formal standards for topos. This will make it easier for editors to create their own topos and update those created by others. I think this bit is going to be hard work! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:56, 23 May 2013 (BST)

If you guys can make a final decision on this, I can mirror the format in the winter guide and provide and an area with clear consistency. I'm using Adobe Illustrator to draw my lines and designing the book in Adobe InDesign. The learning curve is steep but the final results are professional. Is it ok to add a winter table here?. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:51, 1 July 2013 (BST)

==OpenStreetMap and Printing==

I've been having a play about with this for the winter guide as I noted that Pesda Press now use it to good effect. The main difficulty i've been having with it is actually getting an image that is custumised to how I want it, especially in Windows. It can be done with some serious timeconsuming coding but we need to find something that is simple to use.

The best i've got to date is via using an app called 'Kosmos' but this now has ceased to be developed further. 'Maperitive' is a successor to 'Kosmos' but is still under development and can only be used via a command line.

I've also found an app called 'Merkaartor' but have not really played about with it yet. Will let you know on progress. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:11, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve... Have a look at [[Maps_test]]. It's easy to use. If you want a gps data manager, you could use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] - it does OpenStreetMaps, etc. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:27, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I've just been using Windows Viking-0.9.8.0.exe as this was the only compiled version I could get working on my Win7 desktop. In short it seems a powerful tool that I have no idea how to acquire a map with? I tried File>Acquire>From GPS/From Google Maps... As i'm trying to avoid being sued by Google I assume I need to add a new GeoRef map layer somehow? No other options seems to import from OpenStreetMap on the fly. '''EDIT''' --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:39, 21 December 2010 (GMT): I've now figured out you can add a map by going to 'Layers>New Map Layer>OSM(cycle). The others don't seem to work tho.

I'd wish i'd have known about the [[Maps_test]] page earlier ... it would have saved hours of time searching for which free maps to use! I can see how the 'Extension:Maps' works here, on the wiki, but when looking at printing in the actual guidebook we need to steer right away from Google due to legal reasons - right?

Further playing about with the 'Maperitive' app has proved to be the nearest to the mark I have found. Firstly it is legal to use for commercial use; i.e. printing a guidebook. It allows easy downloads of OSM data from within the app via one click. It also allows Exports to Bitmap (.png) and SVG (for Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator). You can also easily generate Relief Contours, Hillshading and Tinting via a few simple clicks if needed.

Now i'm learning here but I have invested a lot if time searching for the winter guide maps, so would be VERY interested how something else could trump this? I know there is a load of apps out there that do better but take hundreds of man hours to master and get right. Will I be able to get to grips with the Viking app quickly if it is better? I'm not a GIS scientist and I haven't got much time. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:19, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve, the 'Maps' extension can work with many different layers, google maps, google-satellite, OpenStreetMap (various renderings), bing, yahoo, etc., etc. On the Wiki, we can can configure our maps to use (and only use) those that have no commercial 'baggage'.

: I'm installing maperitive now and, from look at its website, it seems powerful and a more suited to your needs than viking. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:12, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm just thinking of the final publication I guess. Let me know how you get on with Maperitive vs Viking? Your in a better position to know. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 17:52, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Yep, maperitive probably best for producing customised static maps suitable for publication. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 18:18, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

Nice one Tim. Worth knowing for sure! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 19:13, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

==Drawing lines on topos with Adobe Illustrator==

I'm pretty handy with most of the Adobe Creative Suite but new to Adobe Illustrator. I'm keen to stick with the Adobe theme and know it can be easier with third party apps to draw lines, i.e. Inkscape for example. How would I get started with drawing topo lines on photos with it? What's the tools/brushes of choice here? Anyone here using it? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:42, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm using Inkscape which is very good in my opinion.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 07:47, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

Just to add to the mix ... I was browsing the web last night to see what the yanks do. Adobe Illustrator seems to be the tool of choice for decent quality topos, although i'm still at a loss how to get started with it.
Anyhow, I also came across a very small app called [http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/above/betacreator_-_new_tool_for_making_perfect_climbing_topos BetaCreator] that, although pretty basic, can be used in minutes to produce a topo on the fly.
The program works much like a simplified photo editing program but with tools specifically designed for creating topos for climbing routes. Can be used on both PC and Mac. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Photo DPI when ready for printing==

Just to share a few problems i've encounterd after meeting with the pinters for the winter guide. As well as width and height; photos need to be sized at '''300 DPI'''. With this finer resolution any lines you draw on will be less likely to pixellate (there are couple of horrible examples of pixellation in the Gower and SE Wales guide where lines were drawn on 72 or 96 DPI images and you can see the ‘steps’). Whatever images you send to the printer will need to be at this resolution anyway for the printing process ...

I am saving the final images, to send to the printer, as a '''300 DPI .TIFF''' because that’s the resolution that the printing processes work to. You’ll find that working at 300 DPI on screen will mean you see what you are going to get. Computer resolution and print resolution are different. Just as well to know in advance.
--[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

Talk:Development

2013-07-01T06:51:14Z

Steven Delaney: /* Software to use? */

==Photos For Editing Page==
I've decided to put up the high res versions of the photos I took and also the editable files of the topos I've done (either Inkscape or Paint.Net) so people can edit them if they want. Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6nrbp5ws5njdj --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 17:04, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Good idea. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:52, 30 July 2010 (BST)

:Tom, it would be better if you were to upload the originals to the wiki and then make a page entitled, "Thumbnails Awaiting" - containing (you'd never guess) thumbnails of either 'works in progress' or 'completed topos'. In this way, folks are more likely to see them and more likley to get working. When finished they can be linked from the appropriate crag page. Space problem? We need to up our quota on the server! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:30, 31 July 2010 (BST)

:Yeah I agree (and to be honest I'd probably fall behind with keeping that mediafire page updated), I'm just thinking of terms of saving space. The shot I took of Giants Cave for example was about 20 photos stitched together (from a 10MP camera), which ended up being a 180MB file. Space isn't an issue for me on my desktop but I don't want to be uploading files of that size if server space is limited. Hows the server paid for by the way? Is it out of your own pockets or more through SWMC? --[[User:Tom Dudley|Tom Dudley]] 02:33, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Hmmm... 180Mb is a bit big. If an image is, say, over 10MB, then a small thumbnail and link to the mediafire d/load would do the trick. The SWMC pay for the site. We have a quota of 500MB but we are on 744MB at the moment! I would fear an imminent email but the blokes running running the server seem so laid back!

:Just to add the www.mediafire.com link above no onger displays a file. The site might be unreliable in the long term? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:46, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

:: '''The above is pretty much 'out-of-date'. Tom Dudley seems to have disappeared and we are no longer doing things that way.''' --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:58, 23 May 2013 (BST)

===Thumbnails page accessible?===

I've been thinking of a way of making the thumbnails page accessible but yet unobtrusive. We could have a small link from the bottom of the main page entitled, [[Development]]. That would take us to the developers' guide, thumbnails, photos wanted, list of suitable software, etc. Could even make it readable only by signed up users. Any thoughts? Alan, Tom, Chris, Steve, etc? --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:57, 31 July 2010 (BST)

I've just spotted this. I like the idea of getting to a developers' guide easily. There are already various pages I use lots when writing new pages; i.e. page templates or image tags. That said i'd preffer unobtrusive as I hate bloat. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:37, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Topo Standards==
Sounds like a pretty good idea and I like the page. Yeah biggest issues as I see it is A) Space B) Consistency. I am knocking a few topos out for sports crags. I'm using dashed lines for the route line colour co-ordinating it <6b Purple/pink, 6b-6c+ red, 7a-7b orange/yellow, >7b black/blue. A similar scheme would be applicable for trad but requiring another lower grade colour (green I guess) for the severe grades. Numbers of routes in same colours. It's easy to chnge these around using inkscape if routes get re-numbered or re-graded. However, if we are using different programmes we would be a little restricted. Ideas?

===Software to use?===
{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Sport
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < 6a+
| Green
|-
| 6b-6c
| Orange
|-
| 7a-7b
| Red
|-
| >7b+
| Dark blue
|}

{| style="width: 500px; height: 200px; border-width: 2px; border-style: solid;" class="wikitable"
|- style="color: Red; font-size: 18pt;"
! colspan="2" | Topo Standards - Trad
|-
! Grade
! Line Representation
|-
| < to HVS
| Green
|-
| E1 to E3
| Orange
|-
| > E4 to E5
| Red
|-
| > E5
| Dark Blue
|}

Complete the above as you see fit. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 22:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

We need to develop some formal standards for topos. This will make it easier for editors to create their own topos and update those created by others. I think this bit is going to be hard work! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] ([[User talk:Tim Hoddy|talk]]) 12:56, 23 May 2013 (BST)

If you guys can make a final decision on this, I can mirror the format in the winter guide and provide and an area with clear consistency. I'm using Adobe Illustrator to draw my lines and designing the book in Adobe InDesign. The learning curve is steep but the final results are professional. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:51, 1 July 2013 (BST)

==OpenStreetMap and Printing==

I've been having a play about with this for the winter guide as I noted that Pesda Press now use it to good effect. The main difficulty i've been having with it is actually getting an image that is custumised to how I want it, especially in Windows. It can be done with some serious timeconsuming coding but we need to find something that is simple to use.

The best i've got to date is via using an app called 'Kosmos' but this now has ceased to be developed further. 'Maperitive' is a successor to 'Kosmos' but is still under development and can only be used via a command line.

I've also found an app called 'Merkaartor' but have not really played about with it yet. Will let you know on progress. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:11, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve... Have a look at [[Maps_test]]. It's easy to use. If you want a gps data manager, you could use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] - it does OpenStreetMaps, etc. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:27, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I've just been using Windows Viking-0.9.8.0.exe as this was the only compiled version I could get working on my Win7 desktop. In short it seems a powerful tool that I have no idea how to acquire a map with? I tried File>Acquire>From GPS/From Google Maps... As i'm trying to avoid being sued by Google I assume I need to add a new GeoRef map layer somehow? No other options seems to import from OpenStreetMap on the fly. '''EDIT''' --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:39, 21 December 2010 (GMT): I've now figured out you can add a map by going to 'Layers>New Map Layer>OSM(cycle). The others don't seem to work tho.

I'd wish i'd have known about the [[Maps_test]] page earlier ... it would have saved hours of time searching for which free maps to use! I can see how the 'Extension:Maps' works here, on the wiki, but when looking at printing in the actual guidebook we need to steer right away from Google due to legal reasons - right?

Further playing about with the 'Maperitive' app has proved to be the nearest to the mark I have found. Firstly it is legal to use for commercial use; i.e. printing a guidebook. It allows easy downloads of OSM data from within the app via one click. It also allows Exports to Bitmap (.png) and SVG (for Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator). You can also easily generate Relief Contours, Hillshading and Tinting via a few simple clicks if needed.

Now i'm learning here but I have invested a lot if time searching for the winter guide maps, so would be VERY interested how something else could trump this? I know there is a load of apps out there that do better but take hundreds of man hours to master and get right. Will I be able to get to grips with the Viking app quickly if it is better? I'm not a GIS scientist and I haven't got much time. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 16:19, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Steve, the 'Maps' extension can work with many different layers, google maps, google-satellite, OpenStreetMap (various renderings), bing, yahoo, etc., etc. On the Wiki, we can can configure our maps to use (and only use) those that have no commercial 'baggage'.

: I'm installing maperitive now and, from look at its website, it seems powerful and a more suited to your needs than viking. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:12, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm just thinking of the final publication I guess. Let me know how you get on with Maperitive vs Viking? Your in a better position to know. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 17:52, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

: Yep, maperitive probably best for producing customised static maps suitable for publication. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 18:18, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

Nice one Tim. Worth knowing for sure! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 19:13, 21 December 2010 (GMT)

==Drawing lines on topos with Adobe Illustrator==

I'm pretty handy with most of the Adobe Creative Suite but new to Adobe Illustrator. I'm keen to stick with the Adobe theme and know it can be easier with third party apps to draw lines, i.e. Inkscape for example. How would I get started with drawing topo lines on photos with it? What's the tools/brushes of choice here? Anyone here using it? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 01:42, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

I'm using Inkscape which is very good in my opinion.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 07:47, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

Just to add to the mix ... I was browsing the web last night to see what the yanks do. Adobe Illustrator seems to be the tool of choice for decent quality topos, although i'm still at a loss how to get started with it.
Anyhow, I also came across a very small app called [http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/above/betacreator_-_new_tool_for_making_perfect_climbing_topos BetaCreator] that, although pretty basic, can be used in minutes to produce a topo on the fly.
The program works much like a simplified photo editing program but with tools specifically designed for creating topos for climbing routes. Can be used on both PC and Mac. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

==Photo DPI when ready for printing==

Just to share a few problems i've encounterd after meeting with the pinters for the winter guide. As well as width and height; photos need to be sized at '''300 DPI'''. With this finer resolution any lines you draw on will be less likely to pixellate (there are couple of horrible examples of pixellation in the Gower and SE Wales guide where lines were drawn on 72 or 96 DPI images and you can see the ‘steps’). Whatever images you send to the printer will need to be at this resolution anyway for the printing process ...

I am saving the final images, to send to the printer, as a '''300 DPI .TIFF''' because that’s the resolution that the printing processes work to. You’ll find that working at 300 DPI on screen will mean you see what you are going to get. Computer resolution and print resolution are different. Just as well to know in advance.
--[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:35, 22 December 2010 (GMT)

File talk:Rob1at tww.png

2013-07-01T06:45:47Z

Steven Delaney: Created page with "This is somewhat 'different' from what I remember! --~~~~"

This is somewhat 'different' from what I remember! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 07:45, 1 July 2013 (BST)

Talk:Darren, The

2013-06-24T17:15:43Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:Darren Rock Fall.jpg|thumb|700px|[[Darren, The|The Darren]] Rockfall]]

Not sure of my screen resolution but the page doesn't fit together that well. I'll downsize the pics or move them around a bit.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 19:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Must be 800px wide. That fits em in. Is this very poor or normal?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 19:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks ok to me... but I'm at 1280x1024 --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 22:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks ok at 1024x768 too! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 22:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

That's pretty imprssive! A bit of resin should be able to glue it back on :P --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] ([[User talk:Steven Delaney|talk]]) 18:15, 24 June 2013 (BST)

Talk:South Wales Mountaineering Club - Guidebook Wiki

2012-08-02T13:00:35Z

Steven Delaney:

== mediawiki 1.16.0 and Vector Skin==
This version of MW contains a nice new skin called '''Vector'''. It's the same as that on [http://www.wikipedia.org/ Wikipedia]. I think we should all switch to it if we like it and it suits our purposes. All using the same skin will make layout a little less complicated. I will make the skin the default skin if I hear nothing.

You can change your current skin to the Vector skin by going into your preferences and checking the Vector skin under the 'appearance' tab.

--[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:20, 28 July 2010 (BST)

Looks nice so far. --[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 16:53, 28 July 2010 (BST)

==Front Page Layout==
Just a slightly different layout which may help the search engines. Note the purposes are clearer to search engine bots; i.e. bold and larger fonts. Content under the two sub-headings, Bouldering... and Rock Climbing... would need to be added... --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:07, 30 July 2009 (UTCI

I'll have to admit I love the news box. Now with some sort of header like the one I made for [[Craig-Y-Llyn]] this page would be much improved! Anyone got a suitable landscape picture to use? Great stuff Tim --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 19:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah - lets do it! Nice one Tim--[[Special:Contributions/86.11.38.232|86.11.38.232]] 21:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

: I like it better too... We '''should''' be able to use the ''News Box'' to supply a '''RSS''' feed... but in the meantime, perhaps we should just shove it up front. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 20:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I think I've just fixed a problem I have had getting the RSS extensions to work. After configuring them the wiki produced errors. After installing the No Title extension, I had the same. Disabled some rarely used extensions and hey presto it works and so do the RSS ones!! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

: Apart from the addition of some suitable text, this page still has many opportunities for improvement; in particular layout still needs improving. This would be best done with CSS and '''NOT''' tables.

:* What about a the picture being incorporated into the news box? The latest bit of news comes with its own picture (and, if possible, a link to its own page) ?
:* The News box has its own RSS feed.

:Anyone any more ideas? --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

That is a really nice page Tim. Do you want me to say something about bouldering? Chris

:Placed my email address in the mailto: link. No particular reason why it should be mine, I'm just unwilling to add anyone elses without their permission. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:11, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: Put the craginfo@ address in the mailto: link instead. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

: Would some kind soul please complete the '''Rock Climbing in S. Wales''' and the '''Bouldering in S. Wales''' sections and I'll move this page to the front. Thanks. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 09:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

No probs - just had a go. You should have given me a word limit. I can't get it smaller than that! Feel free to edit more. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:51, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

: That's great! Thanks! I've taken the liberty of adding some links, etc.... --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:22, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

And I have made some tweaks too, Cheers.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 18:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Nice one Alan. I was intending to do the adjective thing at some point too. "Dinorwig with trees!" <---- that's awesome! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 21:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

: Ugh! Don't like the wide news box! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 18:20, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Any chance of a ''link'' to [[Bridegend Area]] Tim--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 20:14, 7 November 2010 (GMT)

: Ermmm... there is one isn't there? --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 20:59, 7 November 2010 (GMT)
: Ah! I see what you mean now! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 21:00, 7 November 2010 (GMT)

::Edit Test --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:58, 21 April 2011 (BST)

:::Edit Test --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 16:01, 21 April 2011 (BST)

I liked the quote "think Dinorwig with trees!" bit. Did you think it undersold/misrepresented the area? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 14:00, 2 August 2012 (BST)

Main Page

2012-04-15T18:54:06Z

Steven Delaney: /* Bouldering in South Wales */

<google1 style="3"></google1>[[Image:Swmc gb2.png|900px|center|alt=South Wales Mountaineering Club - Guidebook Wiki|link=]]

{{#tree:id=maintree|
*'''[[Contents New|Contents]]'''<br>
*'''[[General]]''' - How to submit information and the obligatory disclaimer<br>
*'''[[Super Index]]''' - A list of pages in the Wiki.<br>
*'''[[Best For..]]''' - A locals guide of where to go and when}}

{| class="wikitable" style="width:1050px; float:centre; height:200px" border="1"
|-
! South Wales Latest News
|-
|
*'''April 2012 - [[New Crag 2]]''' - New sport climbing venue near Caerphilly with short walk-in. - (Fr.4 to fr.6b+).
*'''April 2012 - [[Paviland Far Far West]]''' - Sported up for your delight. - (9 routes from Fr.6a+ to fr.6c).
*'''April 2012 - [[Oakdale]]''' - New Sandstone Quarry. - (19 New Routes grade Fr.5 to Fr.6b+).
*'''October 2011''' - N.T. need to be consulted before any further bolting takes place on Gower. See http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4519.
*'''September 2011''' - '''[[Tirpentwys]]''' vandalised. 50 hangers stolen and bolt stubs hammered.
*'''September 2011''' - '''[[Bargoed|Bargoed Quarry]]''' re-juvination complete.
*'''August 2011 - [[Siocled Seren Pysgod Quarry]]''' - ''New sandstone quarry. - (16 New Routes grade Fr.4 to 6a+) ''
*'''03 August 2011''' - Complete access '''BAN''' at '''[[Edwardsville (X1)| Edwardsville]]''' - See - [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4390 BMC Access Database]
*'''April 2011''' - Ravens nesting at '''[[Navigation Quarry - Cilfynydd]]''', see page for details of restrictions.
*'''03 April 2011''' - Re-gearing and crag clean up at '''[[Oxwich#Oxwich_Bay_Quarry_South|Oxwich South Quarry]]''' completed thanks to Stu Llewellyn (local bmc rep), Nik Goile and Steve and S.W.B.F. This summer get there and get clipping, you know it makes sense!
*'''22 December 2010''' - '''[http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?p=13573#13573 Craig-y-Llyn found to be notified as a SSSI !].'''
*'''September 2010 - [[Ridgeway]] Quarry ''' - ''New Sandstone Quarry. - (9. New Routes grade Fr.6a to 6c+.) ''
*'''July 2010 - [[BMC Representatives Meet Dinas Rock Landowners]]'''
*'''April 2010 - Recent de-bolting of routes at [[Taffs Well]]''' - ''Calcite Walls''
*'''March 2010 - [[Crymlyn Quarries]] ''' - ''3. New Sandstone Quarries. - (50+ New Routes grade Fr.5 to 7a+.) ''
|}
<randomimage size="500" float="right" choices="Chris Sheppard cutting loose.jpg|
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Hayabusa.jpg|
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Skanderbeg.jpg|
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Zulu Wall.jpg|
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/>

== Rock Climbing in South Wales ==

Historically overshadowed by it's neighbour, Pembroke, some of the best routes in the UK are located within S.E. Wales and Gower. It's worth a visit or ten! The climbing ranges from 'exciting' to super safe bolt ladders on limestone or sandstone. There is something for everyone. The climbing can be split into 4 sections; [[Gower|Gower Peninsula]], [[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E Wales Sandstone]], [[Inland Limestone]], [[Bridgend Area]]:

'''[[Gower|Gower]]''' is set in one of the most beautiful coastal areas of Wales and contains many fine trad routes from VDiffs to the upper Extremes. If trad isn't your thing then there are even cliffs dedicated to sport climbing! The crags are mostly in relaxed and scenic positions which are positively covered in three star routes.

'''[[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E. Wales Sandstone]]''' climbing is on the hard indurated sandstone of the [[wikipedia:South_Wales_coalfield|South Wales Coalfield]]. Generally this means either bolted routes in quarries, or pleasant natural (read as non-bolted) outcrops. The quarries range from small bites in the hillside to huge monolithic wastelands. Crags are often remnants of the industrial heritage belonging to the South Wales valleys ... but there is something actually pleasant about all this - think [http://slate.wetpaint.com/page/Never+Never+Land?t=anon Dinorwig] with trees!

'''[[Inland Limestone]]''' can contrast in character quite radically. For example, inland sport climbing on steep and solid natural limestone may be found at [[Dinas Rock]], whilst vertical to slabby quarried rock is in plentiful supply around [[Taffs Well]], just off the M4 north of Cardiff.

'''[[Bridgend Area]]''' is for those with salt water in their veins. Coastal bolt clipping can be found at [[Witches Point]], or at the other end of the adventure spectrum there is nationally important [[Ogmore]], which like Marmite ... you will either love or hate.

== Bouldering in South Wales ==
South Wales [[bouldering]] is yet to be developed to the level of North Wales, or the peak, yet it offers a fine spectrum of climbing for experienced and novice boulderers alike. [[Kennelgarth Wall]] at Dinas offers some great safe problems rewarding strength and subtle technique. [[The Trench]] at Ogmore is unique - grit shapes without friction. [[Bouldering in Gower]] gives the climber a 'mine' of easier problems - and some hard ones - with the additional attractions of swimming and jumping at high tide.

The guide is far from complete but is complemented by [http://www.swbg.co.uk www.swbg.co.uk]. One of the problems is that we keep discovering nice new areas to boulder at!

== How You Can Get Involved ==
Anyone interested in rock-climbing and bouldering is welcome to get involved in the development of this wiki.

We are interested in recruiting editors to update pages and to supply news and photographs. The only requirements are that you have something of interest that you are willing to share and that you can work together with other editors to produce an up-to-date and useful resource for climbers both in S. Wales and further afield.

If you are interested, create yourself an account by clicking on the link at the top right of this page. '''N.B.''' New users should note that:
*'''both''' your ''username'' '''and''' ''password'' are case-sensitive.
*your username should take the form of your real ''Full Name''. e.g. '''Fred Bloggs''', etc..

For furthur info, contact '''[mailto:craginfo@skyhook.ath.cx SMWC Craginfo]'''

__NOTITLE__
__NOTOC__
<div style="display: none;"><a href="http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/hpot/unionistwidow.php">publisher-social</a></div>

South Wales Winter Climbs

2012-02-14T13:05:28Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

South Wales Winter Climbs

2012-02-14T12:54:56Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:waun lefrith.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Waun Lefrith]]

Herein lies a list of all the known winter climbing venues that may be included in the new forthcoming winter guide. '''Please send all new route information and photos to [mailto:steven.delaney@climbers-club.co.uk this email address]. '''

'''The main form of communication for climbers is South Wales is now the rapidly growing Winter Climbs in South Wales [http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_181477115200507&ap=1 Facebook Page] to share info, routes, photos and even post real-time photos of the current conditions whilst climbing via smartphones!'''

== The Black Mountains ==

1. '''[[Cwmyoy (aka The Darren)]] III to V+ ***''' OS 161 296245

Best Crag in S.Wales with about 20 routes.

2. '''[[Herbert's Quarry]] III/IV''' OS grid ref SN 733187 (car park)

Located just south of the village of Bethlehem in the Black Mountains there are 2 or 3 steep pitches graded III/IV. It is an abandoned limestone quarry workings just off the Brynaman to Llangadog road which are interpreted to the public. The site affords panoramic views over the western end of the Geopark. Abandoned quarry workings, pits and limekilns abound.

== The Brecon Beacons ==

It's worth checking out this [http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Penyfan/webcams/latestthis webcam] (if it's working) before heading up.

1. '''Torpantau Falls III **''' OS 161 051192

Torpantau Falls as it has become known lies on the east facing escarpment one and a half miles north of the Forestry Commission car park (G R 056175). The main fall provides a popular route that is often in condition, unfortunately this alone makes for rather a short day unless a walk across the tops or if conditions allow climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl are made. The climbs on the Nant Bwrefwl stream have been described first.

The road from the south is easily cut off be snowfall. It is advisable in suspect conditions to approach from the north through Talybont.

From the entrance to the car park follow the Nant Bwrefwl stream up to reach the first fall, take this directly in three steps. Continue upstream for 200 m to reach a second fall which is also climbed directly, both of these falls are grade 3 in standard.

The main ice fall can be found by contouring around Craig Y Fan Ddu to where the left hand branch of the Caerfarell stream breaches the escarpment at (G R 051192). The fall provides two excellent 25 m pitches of grade 3 standard.

2. '''[[Pen-Y-Fan]] III to V **''' OS 160 013216

Pen Y Fan offers some of the highest and longest routes in South Wales. The climbs tend to be of a mixed nature with an air of seriousness not usually found in the area. The cliff can be reached easily in 1 hour from the car park 500m south of Storey Arms (G R 987199) on the A470.
From the summit of Pen Y Fan descend the north ridge marked Cefn Cwm Llwch for 200 m until it is possible to traverse easily right (facing out) onto the N.E Face.
The whole face is split laterally by numerous sloping shelves of vegetation separated by short rock walls. Above this is a steep headwall. The gullies below the headwall are easy to begin with but gradually increase in difficulty. Escape from the gullies is normally possible by traversing left or right along the horizontal bands of vegetation.
The headwall routes are described separately but can, of course, be used to provide a variety of interesting finishes to the climbs in the Central Gully area.

3. '''[[Craig Cerrig-gleisiad]] *''' OS 160 964218

A winter climbing venue near the A470. This crag is series of broken buttress with about eight routes. As it is a National Nature Reserve (NNR), permission to climb is essential prior to rocking up with axes and crampons.

4. '''Pant-Y-Meas Sennybridge * IV''' OS 160 913266

Grade IV climbing.

5. '''Craig y Fro (RAC Corner)''' OS SN 971207

This area has two routes. The main obvious stream up the hillside has a steep beginning and end (possibly pushing towards GdIV depending on conditions and route taken) with little technical difficulty in between.

There is also the obvious 'Culvert to Tree' option that can be good for a quick play on the way home. It is located at the back right above the layby area and easily seen from the burger van!

[[Image:RAC Stream.JPG|400px|thumb|right|The frozen stream by RAC corner on the A470 Brecon]]

== South Wales Valleys ==

1. '''Darren Du (Nr Blina) *''' OS 161 198060

Grade IV

2. '''Cwm''' OS 171 184048

Three routes

3. '''Cwm Clydach''' OS 171 210124 << for parking

Two routes. Route grade III/IV = OS 171 207124. Route grade IV = OS 171 197122

4. '''[[Llanbradach Winter Routes|Llanbradach Quarry]] *''' OS 171 146895

Five routes. Grades II to IV. Ice routes may now be bolted?

5. '''[[Craig-Y-Llyn]] **''' OS 170 913035

Park on top of escarpment. 9 routes. Large number of falls that freeze quite frequently.
Easy access from the top and down the gully approx half way along escarpment. Grades II to IV mainly gully lines. A number of face routes have been climbed since the guide was published.

6. '''Blaenrhondda **''' OS 170 918006

Ten routes. Grades II to V. Park near mine in bottom of valley. Falls can be viewed from Trehebert / Hirwaun road opposite.

7. '''Bleancwm also known as [[Cwm Lluest]] **''' OS 170 922990

Three Routes. Grades II to V. Contains the classic Virgin Falls IV, 100m long. First pitch rarely freezes.

8. '''Bleancwm (Nant-Y-Gwair) **''' OS 170 910986

Five routes. Routes in valley, some of the first routes to freeze. Big fall on left is very good (V if taken direct).

9. '''Ogmore Valley *''' OS 170 927947

One route at Grade IV

10. '''Neath Valley **''' OS 170 825017

One route at grade IV that never freezes!!!

== Pont Afon Pyriddin ==

# '''Afon Pyriddin''' OS 160 898092 - Four routes. Grade I to III/IV. Falls near Sgwd Gwladys.
# '''Afon Nedd''' OS 160 898092 - One route at grade III/IV. From Iron bridge follow north bank of the Nedd for 400m fall on Opposite bank.

== The Camarthen Van ==
[[Image:Joes waterfall.jpg|500px|thumb|''Joe's Waterfall'' in good condition.]]

1. '''Joe's Waterfall''' grade III/IV **

Gives interesting access to the ridge. '''GR SN 84269 18072'''

2. '''Leaning Tower''' OS 834197 Grade II/III.

3. '''East Face''' OS 827217 Grade II

Park for Bannau Sir Gaer OS 797239. Routes follow well defined streams in escarpment.

4. '''Others at Grades I to III''' OS 819221 grade I

OS 817218 grade I

OS 805215 grade I

OS 801215 grade I

OS 797216 grade III

[[Image:Daves fault-topo.jpg|500px|thumb|right|''Dave's Fault'', North Face, Waun Lefrith]]

5. '''Dave's Fault''' grade II (GR SN 803215)

On the North face of Waun Lefrith... three pitches. A very good line, but you need good conditions for it to be good climbing too. Protection is poor.

# ''50 Metres''. Start where the crack deepens and steepens and continue up the crack and over an 'ice-step' to belay above on a dodgy peg in a short wall.
# ''55 Metres''. Ascend just right of the belay stance and continue upward to ice-axe belay!
# ''35 Metres''. Continue to the top and large block belay.

''Dave Griffiths, Mike Danford & Tim Hoddy,29-02-2004''

== Mountain/Crag - Fan Brycheiniog (Part of Carmarthen Van)==

#'''North Gully (I/II)''' - Near the top the gully forks with the right hand exit giving the more interesting finish. OS ref - 823222
#'''Easy Gully (-)''' - Around 30 metres left (SE) of North Gully. OS Ref - 824221
#'''Goat Track Gully (I)''' - Very close to the main track to the summit from the lake. Again take right hand fork at top for better finish. OS Ref - 828215

==Ogmore Cliff==

Roy Thomas climbs from Bridgend Area cliffs. Apparently these freeze every 20 or so years!

1. Pregnant Pause 3/4 Ogmore cliff, east of the rock climbing and just west of the bouldering adjacent to Southerndown is a cliff length tufa cum vegetable cum waterfall. (named because missus was up duff when she held rope)

2. Charlies Risks 2/3 where the cliff bends to start witches point(Liassic Lark nearby) on southerdown beach. Only the first bit was steep and a landslip has overwhelmed the initial dribble so it may now only be a 40m snow slope. Soloed by myself and Charlie Heard.

On the other side of witches walking along the beach to cwm nash are

3. One up the spout 3 short 8m where stream flows over cliff, solo me and charlie

4. Rung a dung ding 2, up side of ladders from wick beach,soloed

5. Fire away and Six pints of bass landlord 3/4 Mick Learoyd,R.Thomas,G.Royle the ice where cwm nash stream meets the beach. Lit a big bonfire on the pebbles then went to the pub then as it was sunny went soloing at ogmore in the afternoon.

The grades might be right or maybe easier as we/I used wooden axes bendy strap on crampons and 2 warthogs and some bits of sharpened poker from the failed metal work projects box.

==Drytooling Venues==
'''Swansea Beach''' The obvious bridge on Swansea beach. You can climb under the arch and land on the sand when it all goes wrong. The bridge is located on Swansea's beach down the hill from Uplands. If you look at the S.Wales bouldering guide there is a topo for the more conventional bouldering, but a few locals use the bridge in winter to train for winter climbing. You will find drilled pockets/holes etc ... in the arches to climb around on. It's good fun but it's best not use crampons as it scratches the rock a lot. Also avoid the area when it's wet as the Sandstone breaks very easy when wet!

'''[[White Goods]]''' is a crag being developed (near the SWMC hut) in Clwyd, N.Wales that is very similar to the one developed in Scotland called [http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/Newtyle_Quarry Newtyle Quarry]

[[Image:Liz, Rock around the block M7, Swansea.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Liz Collyer on 'Rock Around the Block' - M7, Swansea Bridge. Photo by Simon Rawlinson]]

== External winter climbing links ==
'''[http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki]'''

'''[http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=279 UKC Welsh Winter Climbs]'''

Talk:Gower

2011-12-19T10:18:45Z

Steven Delaney:

Note the ''openlevels'' parameter... this allows it to default to open to a pre-defined level e.g. ''openlevels=1''

OK... so this is how I'm going to do this... I'm going to colour code the map for each different Main Area in the collapsible table on the left and supply a key. I'm going to re-arrange the menu so that items are listed west to east (i.e. as they appear on the map) Possibly have a North Gower menu and a South Gower menu (both reading down west to east) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Something like this definitely needs doing, unless you are a seasoned local, the gower is a V tricky area to get your head around.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 08:41, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'd say the same is true for Ogmore. We all know where to go but it must be a nightmare for a first timers visit. I'm sure plenty of people have been cut off by the tide. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 09:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: The old mapping extension that we used, allowed use of colour overlays on a map. That extension no longer works with the new servers version of PHP. I don't think that the current [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] extension allows overlays like this... I'll check. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: No, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] does not do colour overlays. One idea is to use a static OSM map and put our own colour overlays onto it and configure it as an Image Map; i.e. a clickable map where clicking on a colour would take the user to the relevant area page, e.g. [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]].

: However, what we have already is pretty good compared with the old guide. The Gower Map should allow anyone with a modicum of intelligence to orient themselves and fix the location of crags and areas. The fact that we can edit the OSM database to add paths and crags is a big bonus. I suppose, however, there is more than 1 one way to this and the colour coding may help some. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:39, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==Maps==
[[Gower]] now uses the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] extension. Currently it is not configured to use OpenLayers as our icons don't quite work as they should.
: Will as OpenLayers just as soon as I find time to edit the icons. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:55, 27 April 2011 (BST)

==NEW ROUTES ==

Mewslade Bay, Cathedral Wall

Giant Potamus E3 5c **

18m. Just right of “Faint White Hope” is a sculpted cleft, from which a crack on the left leads to a hanging pod in the side-wall of the tower. Climb this crack strenuously, barnacled at first, with good protection to a desperate entry into the pod. Deceptively difficult, but a span to the wall behind you and use of a helmeted head as another point of contact may assist. After getting your breath back continue more easily up the crozzly wall above the pod. A great route - physical, technical and then bold. (F.A. Nick Taylor 25.5.09, belayed on several different occasions by Lesley Burgess)

Climbed ground up, with thwarted attempts over the previous 5 years due to tide encroaching and belayer going on strike, brownie-point depletion, sand movement causing large pool below the route, not to mention the fiendish crux. Initially I was convinced the grade would go at E4 6b. Finally victorious, one lovely sunny morning, we returned to the B+B in Middleton to watch the televised play-off final hoping for a Sheffield United victory and commemorative route name, but they played dismally (lost to Burnley) and it took me about another year to come up with a name.

Mewslade Bay, The Aisle

Barefoot Acrobat VS 4c *

12m. Go through the cave leading to “Sump it Up”. A steep hanging rib on the left (west) side of the arch is climbed on jugs to a strenuous exit over the cave entrance. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 29.8.04)
Climbed again 2006, I now feel it warrants VS not HS as originally graded, and well worth a star.

North Edge Direct E1 5a

12m. The arête on the landward (north) end of the aisle is climbed direct. (The original at VS 4c would appear to climb the right hand side of the arête swinging left at about half height).
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 29.8.04)

Sixteen Hooves E1 5b*

Start right of “Zoom Zoom Doris”, underneath the arched roof. Pull strenuously through bulges to the roof (thread & good wedged rest). Resume battle exiting leftwards to finish up the easier corner (past another thread).
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 10.6.06)

Mewslade Bay, Trident Gully

Jiggler’s Chimney S

12m. This is the squeeze chimney in the back of the left hand side of the gully (left of “Balm”). Not as difficult as Wriggler - but again challenging for those of large stature - exit through a hole to find yourself in the Catacomb gully area (at the start of ”Attack the Ghost” described below). (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 9.6.06)

Wriggler’s Chimney HS *

12m. Definitely not for the stout! This route has been inserted into the guide in the wrong place, it is the chimney right of “Malm”, in the back of the right hand side of the gully. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 13.6.03)

Mewslade Bay, Catacomb Gully

Attack the Ghost HVS 5a

12m. About 4m down and left of “Celtic Uprising” is a hole in the floor (the exit of “Jiggler’s Chimney”). Above this, climb the dark drainage streak/ crack line. Short, sharp and steep. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 24.5.09)

Thurba West

Plastic Wings E1 5b

10m. Left of “Amuseland” and 3m right of “Nogolo”, climb a short V-groove and a steep corner above.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 9.6.06)

Three Tors area, West Tor

Guy Fawking of the Legs E1 5a

8m. Climbs the left side of the compact central section of slab, right of “Right Crack”. Direct at first, then trending leftwards at about 2/3rds height. Un-protected. (F.A. Nick Taylor, solo 26.5.09, inspected for loose rock first)

Three Tors area, Little Tor

Dark Star E1 5b

11m. An eliminate between Scout Crack and Super-direct; although squeezed in at the beginning, these routes diverge and finish 5m apart. Excellent climbing on perfect rock, another worthwhile challenge whilst visiting this super little wall.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 14.6.03)

Three Tors area, Great Tor

The route “The Cramps in the Cold” appears to be in the wrong place in the guide, it is just right of “The Ramp with no Holds” (the description is ambiguous, the arête referred to is further right, next to the route “Terms of Office”, not immediately right of the black corner)

Love Bump HS 4a

10m. The arête between “training for Ogmore” and “South Crack”. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 26.5.09)

Three Tors area, Great Tor East

Cave and Balcony Blow-hole VD

9m. Right of “central Pillar” climb damp cracks into the back of a cave (mentioned in the guide, pg.161) and a balcony ledge. Step across and take an exposed exit through the blow-hole. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 23.5.09)

Pobbles Bay East

Nearly Dropped Me Brolly E2 5c *

12m. On the east wall of the cove three parallel cracks slant up to a large conglomerate overhang. Follow the left-hand crack direct to below the overhang, then a steep sequence of moves on undercuts and jams lead rightwards and up to an urgent exit. Interesting climbing with good protection. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 30.8.04)

Heatherslade Bay

The following two routes are in the back of the zawn which is mentioned in the approach section of the guidebook (just east of and next to the other described routes).

Leany Back Back VS 4b

10m. In the back of the zawn the roof closes overhead to form a cave with an exit between huge chock-stones. Starting beneath this, climb the steep, juggy but greasy left wall of the cave direct, until it is possible to chimney through the innermost skylight between the jammed chock-stones. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 1.8.10)

Leany Back VS 4b

9m. Start just outside the entrance to the cave, on the right wall. Climb on good holds through an overlap then direct to the right hand side of a small roof. Blind moves but more good holds lead over this then up a small black wall. Low in grade.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 1.8.10)

==Maps Extension==
Had a word with the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps Maps] developer and he said he hopes to be able to fix the problem we have with the maps in that we cannot use OpenLayers AND our own custom icons. This would make our maps much clearer. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:50, 2 June 2011 (BST)

Is that for Google maps or all of them? I ask as i'm reading about how legal it is it print OSM maps in a guide. As far as I can decipher OSM is fine and free! You don't even have to ask for permission. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 00:16, 3 June 2011 (BST)

No, no one needs permission for OSM. The OpenLayers problem is a problem with the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps Maps] extension. We cannot use custom icons when we have OpenLayers defined in our maps. This is a bug in the extension and not a legal requirement. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 05:38, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==New Gower Guide==
Just a heads up in case you didn't know. I just saw on facebook that someone is making a Gower guide. No idea who the authors are yet. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:18, 19 December 2011 (GMT)

Talk:Gower

2011-12-19T10:18:13Z

Steven Delaney:

Note the ''openlevels'' parameter... this allows it to default to open to a pre-defined level e.g. ''openlevels=1''

OK... so this is how I'm going to do this... I'm going to colour code the map for each different Main Area in the collapsible table on the left and supply a key. I'm going to re-arrange the menu so that items are listed west to east (i.e. as they appear on the map) Possibly have a North Gower menu and a South Gower menu (both reading down west to east) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Something like this definitely needs doing, unless you are a seasoned local, the gower is a V tricky area to get your head around.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 08:41, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'd say the same is true for Ogmore. We all know where to go but it must be a nightmare for a first timers visit. I'm sure plenty of people have been cut off by the tide. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 09:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: The old mapping extension that we used, allowed use of colour overlays on a map. That extension no longer works with the new servers version of PHP. I don't think that the current [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] extension allows overlays like this... I'll check. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: No, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] does not do colour overlays. One idea is to use a static OSM map and put our own colour overlays onto it and configure it as an Image Map; i.e. a clickable map where clicking on a colour would take the user to the relevant area page, e.g. [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]].

: However, what we have already is pretty good compared with the old guide. The Gower Map should allow anyone with a modicum of intelligence to orient themselves and fix the location of crags and areas. The fact that we can edit the OSM database to add paths and crags is a big bonus. I suppose, however, there is more than 1 one way to this and the colour coding may help some. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:39, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==Maps==
[[Gower]] now uses the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps Maps] extension. Currently it is not configured to use OpenLayers as our icons don't quite work as they should.
: Will as OpenLayers just as soon as I find time to edit the icons. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:55, 27 April 2011 (BST)

==NEW ROUTES ==

Mewslade Bay, Cathedral Wall

Giant Potamus E3 5c **

18m. Just right of “Faint White Hope” is a sculpted cleft, from which a crack on the left leads to a hanging pod in the side-wall of the tower. Climb this crack strenuously, barnacled at first, with good protection to a desperate entry into the pod. Deceptively difficult, but a span to the wall behind you and use of a helmeted head as another point of contact may assist. After getting your breath back continue more easily up the crozzly wall above the pod. A great route - physical, technical and then bold. (F.A. Nick Taylor 25.5.09, belayed on several different occasions by Lesley Burgess)

Climbed ground up, with thwarted attempts over the previous 5 years due to tide encroaching and belayer going on strike, brownie-point depletion, sand movement causing large pool below the route, not to mention the fiendish crux. Initially I was convinced the grade would go at E4 6b. Finally victorious, one lovely sunny morning, we returned to the B+B in Middleton to watch the televised play-off final hoping for a Sheffield United victory and commemorative route name, but they played dismally (lost to Burnley) and it took me about another year to come up with a name.

Mewslade Bay, The Aisle

Barefoot Acrobat VS 4c *

12m. Go through the cave leading to “Sump it Up”. A steep hanging rib on the left (west) side of the arch is climbed on jugs to a strenuous exit over the cave entrance. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 29.8.04)
Climbed again 2006, I now feel it warrants VS not HS as originally graded, and well worth a star.

North Edge Direct E1 5a

12m. The arête on the landward (north) end of the aisle is climbed direct. (The original at VS 4c would appear to climb the right hand side of the arête swinging left at about half height).
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 29.8.04)

Sixteen Hooves E1 5b*

Start right of “Zoom Zoom Doris”, underneath the arched roof. Pull strenuously through bulges to the roof (thread & good wedged rest). Resume battle exiting leftwards to finish up the easier corner (past another thread).
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 10.6.06)

Mewslade Bay, Trident Gully

Jiggler’s Chimney S

12m. This is the squeeze chimney in the back of the left hand side of the gully (left of “Balm”). Not as difficult as Wriggler - but again challenging for those of large stature - exit through a hole to find yourself in the Catacomb gully area (at the start of ”Attack the Ghost” described below). (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 9.6.06)

Wriggler’s Chimney HS *

12m. Definitely not for the stout! This route has been inserted into the guide in the wrong place, it is the chimney right of “Malm”, in the back of the right hand side of the gully. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight solo 13.6.03)

Mewslade Bay, Catacomb Gully

Attack the Ghost HVS 5a

12m. About 4m down and left of “Celtic Uprising” is a hole in the floor (the exit of “Jiggler’s Chimney”). Above this, climb the dark drainage streak/ crack line. Short, sharp and steep. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 24.5.09)

Thurba West

Plastic Wings E1 5b

10m. Left of “Amuseland” and 3m right of “Nogolo”, climb a short V-groove and a steep corner above.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 9.6.06)

Three Tors area, West Tor

Guy Fawking of the Legs E1 5a

8m. Climbs the left side of the compact central section of slab, right of “Right Crack”. Direct at first, then trending leftwards at about 2/3rds height. Un-protected. (F.A. Nick Taylor, solo 26.5.09, inspected for loose rock first)

Three Tors area, Little Tor

Dark Star E1 5b

11m. An eliminate between Scout Crack and Super-direct; although squeezed in at the beginning, these routes diverge and finish 5m apart. Excellent climbing on perfect rock, another worthwhile challenge whilst visiting this super little wall.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 14.6.03)

Three Tors area, Great Tor

The route “The Cramps in the Cold” appears to be in the wrong place in the guide, it is just right of “The Ramp with no Holds” (the description is ambiguous, the arête referred to is further right, next to the route “Terms of Office”, not immediately right of the black corner)

Love Bump HS 4a

10m. The arête between “training for Ogmore” and “South Crack”. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 26.5.09)

Three Tors area, Great Tor East

Cave and Balcony Blow-hole VD

9m. Right of “central Pillar” climb damp cracks into the back of a cave (mentioned in the guide, pg.161) and a balcony ledge. Step across and take an exposed exit through the blow-hole. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 23.5.09)

Pobbles Bay East

Nearly Dropped Me Brolly E2 5c *

12m. On the east wall of the cove three parallel cracks slant up to a large conglomerate overhang. Follow the left-hand crack direct to below the overhang, then a steep sequence of moves on undercuts and jams lead rightwards and up to an urgent exit. Interesting climbing with good protection. (F.A. Nick Taylor, on-sight 30.8.04)

Heatherslade Bay

The following two routes are in the back of the zawn which is mentioned in the approach section of the guidebook (just east of and next to the other described routes).

Leany Back Back VS 4b

10m. In the back of the zawn the roof closes overhead to form a cave with an exit between huge chock-stones. Starting beneath this, climb the steep, juggy but greasy left wall of the cave direct, until it is possible to chimney through the innermost skylight between the jammed chock-stones. (F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 1.8.10)

Leany Back VS 4b

9m. Start just outside the entrance to the cave, on the right wall. Climb on good holds through an overlap then direct to the right hand side of a small roof. Blind moves but more good holds lead over this then up a small black wall. Low in grade.
(F.A. Nick Taylor, o/s solo 1.8.10)

==Maps Extension==
Had a word with the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps Maps] developer and he said he hopes to be able to fix the problem we have with the maps in that we cannot use OpenLayers AND our own custom icons. This would make our maps much clearer. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:50, 2 June 2011 (BST)

Is that for Google maps or all of them? I ask as i'm reading about how legal it is it print OSM maps in a guide. As far as I can decipher OSM is fine and free! You don't even have to ask for permission. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 00:16, 3 June 2011 (BST)

No, no one needs permission for OSM. The OpenLayers problem is a problem with the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps Maps] extension. We cannot use custom icons when we have OpenLayers defined in our maps. This is a bug in the extension and not a legal requirement. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 05:38, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==New Gower Guide==
Just a heads up in cas you didn't know. I just saw on facebook that someone is making a Gower guide. No idea who the authors are yet.

Edwardsville (X1)

2011-08-07T09:47:18Z

Steven Delaney:

[[Image:No climbing.png|right|thumb|See [[Edwardsville (X1)#ACCESS|access]] note below|link=]]
[[Image:Old Map Edwardsville.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Edwardsville Layout]]
[[Contents]]

[[South East Wales Sandstone]]

==BOLTING POLICY==

Common sense should apply! Following the Gower and South East Wales bolting policy [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/?q=bolting_policy (1999-2000)] the crag is quarried Sandstone and therefore new sports routes are allowed. Retro-bolting is allowed but only with the first ascensionists permission. Bolts should be at least 10 mm stainless steel (pref 12 mm following the current [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2411 BMC guidelines]) or resin type staples.
~Remember to please send in [http://www.southwalesboltfund.co.uk your vital bolt fund contributions]. Without it and your continued support, there will be no quality sports routes or quality bolts for you to fall on.

==PREAMBLE==

A compact sports quarry located high on the mountain near Mount Pleasant. The quarry faces west and is quick drying with all-day sun. A good summer evening venue!

The routes are generally solid on the lower tier. The upper tier is a little looser so avoid straying from the cleaned bolt line and belayers please remember to wear a helmet.

The landowner, his wife and their burly son has spotted climbers while clearing a route on the top tier. After mentioning the quarry is up for sale for a mere 20million, or was it just two?, they expressed concerns about people climbing there due to possible claims against them and also advised people stop climbing there until they received clarification.
They have been referred to the BMC and the access rep has also been informed via a phone call.

[[Image:mount pleasant.jpg|800px|thumb|centre]]

==ACCESS==

'''The BMC have requested that climbers do not climb at this site until attempts have been made to resolve serious access issues.''' See [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4390 BMC Access Database]

From the south, follow the A4054 through Edwardsville until Mount Pleasant is reached. It is recommended that one parks on the southern side of the village of Mount Pleasant.

Walk south along the A4054 until two tracks are seen which lead uphill into the forest. Follow the second and southerly track (in poorer condition than the northern track which leads to Mount Pleasant Crag - X2)upwards past a rusty gate to the lower tier of the quarry.

See Map at bottom of page.

==DESCENTS==

All current routes have lower offs that enable the start position to be gained. Access can be made to the upper tier by a path located at both ends of the lower tier. Going right past the drift mine is probably the better option for a first tie visitor.
Should you require access to the top of the upper tier there is a well trodden path that winds it's way to the top on the left of the lower tier. Lovely views but BEWARE of loose rock and climbers below!

==ROUTES==

(SOME INFO FROM SPORTSCLIMBS.COM)

===LOWER TIER===

====Fertility Cave Area====

''The left hand side of the lower tier sports an impressive cave. The routes are described from the left starting on slabs just outside the cave proper.''

1. '''Monkey Business - Fr.6a+ *'''

Bimble up the left side of slab to an airy finishing arete.

2. '''Flidington Rex - Fr.5+'''

recently re-cleaned and more bolts added.

3. '''Big Bad Baboon - Fr.5+ '''

Shares a start with Flidington Rex. Move right across ' Orangutanatarium' to an arete with a blue sling 'Cone Penetration Test'.

4. '''Orangutarium - Fr.6b *'''

The next route is direct via a line of staples through a technical slab.

5. '''Cone Penetration Test - Fr.6b+'''

The arete to reach a tree with a blue sling.

6. '''Remediation Required - Fr.6b *'''

The cheesy-looking corner gives steep and interesting climbing.

7. '''Fisty Nuts - Fr.7b+ * '''

The horizontal roof crack and slab above the lip of the cave.

8. '''Project'''

The roof with a large padlock on the bolt.

9. '''Fistula - Fr.7a **'''

Superb route via twisting crack and easier but fine headwall.

[[Image:cave topo1.jpg|800px|thumb|centre|Fertility Cave Topo]]

10. '''Rabbit Proof Fence - Fr.6a+'''

Line of staples right of cave to lip of second overhang.

11. '''Uluru - Fr.6a+'''

Pocketed groove just to the right taking roof on right.

12. '''Cox 2 Inhibitor - Fr.6b+ *'''

Direct behind larch tree via pockets and tricky bulge.

13. '''Proton Pump - Fr.6a'''

Shallow groove with steep bulge

14. '''Voltarol Vigour Fr.6a'''

Line of staples to right to higher lower-off.

15. '''Sucking Dick's Lofenac - Fr.5+'''

the left-hand side of the slab right of the corner.

16. '''Co-Codamol Crunch - Fr.5+'''

right side of slab to same lower-off.

17. '''Tramadol Trip - Fr.6a *'''

Pockets in a faint groove left of a slanting crack.

====Right Hand Slabs====

[[Image:Paul Prefers.jpg|350px|thumb|right|Rob McAllister on Paul Prefers Pretty Pussy - Fr.6a+]]

1. '''Paracetamol Punch - Fr.6b'''

Pockets to start to gain slab with a bulge above.

2. '''Ed Less - Fr.6a'''

Deep pocket to pass overhang then slab above.

3. '''Guillotine - Fr.5+'''

Corner above earth bank.

4. '''Final Cut - Fr.6b'''

R of earth bank. Up left to a pocket then tricky move to slabby arete.

5. '''Primal Cut - Fr.6b'''

Short wall to 'stand up' finale.

6. '''Razor Strop - Fr.6b'''

Difficult start to ledge then easy.

7. '''The Poddling - Fr.6a *'''

Scooped wall to overhangs, sharp arete and crack above. Unfortunately the lower off is well below crag standard.

8. '''Ed More - Fr.5'''

Rounded slab work, worthwhile. Unfortunately shares a lower off with ''The Puddling''.

9. '''Aqua Mule Show - Fr.5'''

V groove, short slab and rib above overlap.

10. '''Known only Unto God - Fr.6a+'''

Easy start to face with hard finale to belay (krab has recently been stolen).

11. '''Oolacunta - Fr.6a'''

High blunt arete.

12. '''Uber Gruppen Fuhrer - Fr.4'''

Easy slab. Staples on terrace above for those wishing to top out.

====Drift Mine Wall====

''There are three further routes over to the right, tucked in behind some trees''

1. '''Daddy's Little Lemon Licker Fr. 6a'''

Start right of mine entrance. Up and left to lower-off.

2. '''Get Nutted E2 5c'''

Twin diagonal cracks.

2. '''Homme de L'elephant Fr.5+'''

A line of staples to the right.

===UPPER TIER===

====Left Hand Slabs====

''On the left side of the Upper Tier is a raised platform, above which is a sweep of slabs. The pronounced cracks and horizontal breaks make this section very 'Stanage-like' at first appearance. The routes get progressively better rightwards. ''

[[Image:Left Hand Slabs.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

1. '''Polari Cartso - Fr.5+'''

Tricky start on undercut slab, past tree with sling.

2. '''Rhondda Tan - Fr.5'''

Slab with horizontal breaks

3. '''Steroid Vest - Fr.6a'''

More Slab Climbing

4. '''Back to Black - Fr.5+'''

Wide Crack - still a little loose and eliminate.

5. '''Johnny Bionc - 6a'''

Better. Finger jams in vertical crack to gain slab

6. '''Slabadabadoo - Fr.5'''

Slab to oversized lower-off chain

7. '''Fisting the night away - Fr.5+'''

Entertaining. The twisting crack
[[Image:Fisting the Night Away.jpg|700px|thumb|centre]]

====Undercut Slabs Area====

''The high undercut slab contains three of the best routes hereabout.''

1. '''Paul Prefers Pretty Pussy - Fr.6a+'''

Left hand line with a peg low down. Swing back and forth around the arete until a crack in the slab is reached. Single snap-gate lower off.

2. '''Monkey Stole My Face - Fr.6a+ *'''

Central leaning crack line. Good dynamic fun.

3. '''Balls of Damocles - Fr.6b *'''

Start in 'V' groove and rock over leftwards onto the slab using slopey crimps, technical.
[[Image:Undercut slabs and crud area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

====Crud Area====

''Reasons not to climb near blast holes soon become apparent.''

1. '''A Dream of Wet Rabbits - Fr.5'''

The right side of the groove to a low L.O.

2. '''Boy George V - Fr.6a'''

Surmount the giant egg to a ledge. Shares a L.O. with ''A Dream''.

3. '''Rent Boys and Radiators - (XS) Fr.6a+'''

A poor route. Approach the long & shattered vertical shothole with care.

4. '''We Like Hot Beaver - Fr.6a'''

Another adventure through questionable rock - but improved since the first ascent.

5. '''Hot Little Minx - Fr.6a'''

The line of goldie hangers. Just left of the corner to a high L.O.

==== Central Area ====
[[Image:Central Area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

1. '''The Pleasant Mount - Fr.6c+ *'''

A long and good looking route.

2. '''Mounting at the Edge - Fr.6b+ *'''

Branches rightwards from ''The Pleasant Mount'' after bolt No.2.

3. '''Man in Honda over yonder in Rhondda - Fr.6b'''

Up the stepped arete to a hard-to-clip belay

4. '''Poke Her Face - Fr.5+'''

Surprisingly delicate ascent of the short arete.

====Right Hand Area====

1. '''Over the Top - Fr.6a'''

Climb a bulge and then a slab above ledge. Awkward to clip the lower off.

2. '''Bull Camp - Fr.6a'''

To lower-off on right of roof.

3. '''I love valleys girls - Fr.6a (& Bull Camp Fr.5+)'''

Continuation of Bull Camp - Steep climbing on the left of Henry Allingham following a good line of bolts to a slab high up . Climb through the shale band and over the last overhang to reach a good lower off situated back. 15m

4. '''...but I couldn't eat a whole one - Fr.6a'''

A link up. Climb Henry Allingham but finish up left passing a small tree to the small roof. Finish as for 'I love ...' 10m

5. '''Henry Allingham - Fr.5c'''

The left hand groove line to the roof, then move out right to an exposed mantle shelf finish. Henry Allingham was the oldest WW1 soldier still alive at the time of the first ascent (trench warfare). 10m.

6. '''Harry Patch - Fr.6a+'''

The slab and exposed finish to the lower off on the roof right of Henry A. Harry patch was the oldest living RAF officer from WW1. 10m

7. '''Chloe's Crack - Fr.5+'''

Del's romance wanted a route named after her, so here it is. Located on the far right of the crags upper tier there is a slanting crack/open groove below an overhanging lower off. Climb onto the ledge of Harry Patch, move right to the groove and follow the obvious cleaned crack to the lower off in the overhanging top-out. A great climb to practice using traditional protection (i.e. nuts/cams) as well as clipping the bolts. In fact the nervous leader may need to after the last bolt! 10m

8 '''Emiliano Mercado del Toro - Fr.5+'''

The arête to the right of Chloe's Crack. In name of the oldest authenticated military veteran, from any conflict, ever to have lived. Shared L.O. with ''Chloe's Crack''10m
[[Image:Righthand area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

''There is some loose rock before the next two routes:''

9. '''Bonaroo Lally Tappers - Fr.5+'''

The slabby face to the left of the final arete in the right of the quarry.

10. '''Meat Fly vs The Custard Cannon - Fr.6a'''

Right of the final arete in the right of the quarry. Climb deep crack and hand traverse to finish up slab above.

==FIRST ASCENTS==

<font size="1">

'''UPPER TIER'''

'''Left Hand Slabs'''

1. 00.11.2008

2. 00.00.2008

3. 00.00.2008

4. 00.00.2008

5. 00.00.2008

6. 00.00.2008

7. 00.00.2008

'''Drift Mine Area'''

1. 00.00.2009

2. 00.00. 2008

3. K. Davies 00.00.2008

'''Undercut Slabs Area'''

1. 00.00.2009

2. 00.00.2009

3. 00.00.2008

'''Crud Area'''

1. 00.00.2008

2. 00.00.2009

3 00.00.2008

4. 00.00.2009

5. 01.05.2009

'''Central Area'''

1. 01.05.2009

2. 02.05.2009

3. 02.05.2009

4. 02.05.2009

'''Right Hand Area'''

1. May 2009

2. June 2009

3. S & C Sept 2009

4. G & S 01.04.2009

5. G & S 01.04.2009

6. G & S 11.03.2009

7. S & G 11.03.2009

8. S & G 01.04.2009

9. 02.05.2009

10.02.05.2009

</font>

==MAP==

The crag located at 51°40'19.75"N / 3°19'35.68"W as shown:

{{
#display_points:
51.672216, -3.326561
~'''[[Edwardsville (X1)]]'''
~51.672216, -3.326561
~;

51.67695, -3.332258
~Parking
~51.67695, -3.332258
~File:Parking.png

|service=openlayers
|layers=osm-mapnik,osm-cyclemap,google,bing
|controls=panzoombar,scaleline,overviewmap,keyboarddefaults,navigation,layerswitcher,mouseposition
}}

Talk:Tirpentwys

2011-07-20T20:03:42Z

Steven Delaney: /* Access Issues */

1. This is a test [user unknown]

A test? What is the Test?
When does It take place?
Who is my Examiner?
These are questions that i'm sure we have all asked ourselves regarding the Test.
But this is the very beauty of that Test - we cannot know the answer to a single one of those questions.
If we could, it would not be the Test.
In a western world whose educational system is increasingly fixated on course work over end of term testing, our young men and women lose the respect necessary to accept the nature of the Test - they want everything to be the same as their years of course work.
Life is not this way. The Test is not this way... --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 20:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

== Route numbering ==

Numbering is broken from Choosey Suzie downwards.

Thanks... hopefully it's fixed now. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:05, 4 July 2011 (BST)

Any hope of using the following system throughout the wiki? It looks a lot better and is easier to edit in the long run.

#'''Route name - Fr. 6b'''<br>Route description<br><br>

: I think it looks '''slightly''' better but it is very fiddly to do well especially when you have to add text inbetween route descriptions. The wiki markup becomes very difficult to read when we do this. It's also difficult to mix route descriptions and photos for example and too many <nowiki><BR>s</nowiki> could make our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult. If we were continually updating crags and their routes descriptions then I think that would swing me... but once it's all on the wiki, updates will arrive fairly slowly.

: How about mixing it? It doesn't irritate me much when I see the different formats. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:09, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: Also, looking at the Tirpentwys page, doing it the <nowiki><BR></nowiki> way is going to make it difficult to add proper linkable sub-sections within the route descriptions. The other way means we can be more flexible.

: Another thought: Suppose someone adds a direct finish to a route or more likely squeezes in a route between two others. With the old way of doing things we could, at a pinch, number the route "23A" for example and then have very little editing to do of the crag's topo. I'm assuming here that others are not using "layers" in designing the topos. If you '''are''' using "layers" in your topo designs then this would not be a concern. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:25, 4 July 2011 (BST)

''our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult.'' This statement worries me some.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 22:16, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: No need to worry. The current CSS gives us little control over the positioning of images and doesn't allow us fine control of page layout. Should we ever wish to develop the style and layout further, (and of course we'd all have to agree on this!), then adding html tags (esp. <nowiki> <br> </nowiki>) will make it very awkward.

: Anyway, to be honest I like the simple layout... but I also like keeping our options open. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:32, 4 July 2011 (BST)

== Supertramp Video ==

Noticed a few videos popping up on other crag pages, so thought I'd contribute.
Not the best video in the world, but here's a video of an onsite of Supertramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7ro9pll5uk

Only starts half way up unfortunately (just can't find reliably cameramen these days), after the easy bit.
Feel free to use if you feel it will enhance the wiki.

Cheers,
Ben (The Slowest Climber in South Wales).

=Access Issues=

I have just got the following message off a caving friend of mine:

"Is this you?

Can anyone put me in toutch with the person or persons who have bolted and put hangers into a small quarry face in Trewpentis nature reserve near Pontypool?

Whoever did it has done the most excellent job.

Unfortunatally they also freaked the landowner out and all climbing is prohibited. I have spoken to the landowner and I think it is not impossible to get permissive access.

I don't want to be seen as stealing someone elses toys, so if I can be put in toutch with the climbers resposible I'm sure we can work something out that will make everyone happy."

Source: http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=12219.msg158072%3Btopicseen#new

Talk:Tirpentwys

2011-07-20T20:01:39Z

Steven Delaney: /* Access Issues */

1. This is a test [user unknown]

A test? What is the Test?
When does It take place?
Who is my Examiner?
These are questions that i'm sure we have all asked ourselves regarding the Test.
But this is the very beauty of that Test - we cannot know the answer to a single one of those questions.
If we could, it would not be the Test.
In a western world whose educational system is increasingly fixated on course work over end of term testing, our young men and women lose the respect necessary to accept the nature of the Test - they want everything to be the same as their years of course work.
Life is not this way. The Test is not this way... --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 20:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

== Route numbering ==

Numbering is broken from Choosey Suzie downwards.

Thanks... hopefully it's fixed now. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:05, 4 July 2011 (BST)

Any hope of using the following system throughout the wiki? It looks a lot better and is easier to edit in the long run.

#'''Route name - Fr. 6b'''<br>Route description<br><br>

: I think it looks '''slightly''' better but it is very fiddly to do well especially when you have to add text inbetween route descriptions. The wiki markup becomes very difficult to read when we do this. It's also difficult to mix route descriptions and photos for example and too many <nowiki><BR>s</nowiki> could make our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult. If we were continually updating crags and their routes descriptions then I think that would swing me... but once it's all on the wiki, updates will arrive fairly slowly.

: How about mixing it? It doesn't irritate me much when I see the different formats. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:09, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: Also, looking at the Tirpentwys page, doing it the <nowiki><BR></nowiki> way is going to make it difficult to add proper linkable sub-sections within the route descriptions. The other way means we can be more flexible.

: Another thought: Suppose someone adds a direct finish to a route or more likely squeezes in a route between two others. With the old way of doing things we could, at a pinch, number the route "23A" for example and then have very little editing to do of the crag's topo. I'm assuming here that others are not using "layers" in designing the topos. If you '''are''' using "layers" in your topo designs then this would not be a concern. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:25, 4 July 2011 (BST)

''our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult.'' This statement worries me some.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 22:16, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: No need to worry. The current CSS gives us little control over the positioning of images and doesn't allow us fine control of page layout. Should we ever wish to develop the style and layout further, (and of course we'd all have to agree on this!), then adding html tags (esp. <nowiki> <br> </nowiki>) will make it very awkward.

: Anyway, to be honest I like the simple layout... but I also like keeping our options open. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:32, 4 July 2011 (BST)

== Supertramp Video ==

Noticed a few videos popping up on other crag pages, so thought I'd contribute.
Not the best video in the world, but here's a video of an onsite of Supertramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7ro9pll5uk

Only starts half way up unfortunately (just can't find reliably cameramen these days), after the easy bit.
Feel free to use if you feel it will enhance the wiki.

Cheers,
Ben (The Slowest Climber in South Wales).

=Access Issues=

I have just got e following message off a csaving friend of mine:

"Is this you?

Can anyone put me in toutch with the person or persons who have bolted and put hangers into a small quarry face in Trewpentis nature reserve near Pontypool?

Whoever did it has done the most excellent job.

Unfortunatally they also freaked the landowner out and all climbing is prohibited. I have spoken to the landowner and I think it is not impossible to get permissive access.

I don't want to be seen as stealing someone elses toys, so if I can be put in toutch with the climbers resposible I'm sure we can work something out that will make everyone happy."

Source: http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=12219.msg158072%3Btopicseen#new

Talk:Tirpentwys

2011-07-20T20:01:18Z

Steven Delaney:

1. This is a test [user unknown]

A test? What is the Test?
When does It take place?
Who is my Examiner?
These are questions that i'm sure we have all asked ourselves regarding the Test.
But this is the very beauty of that Test - we cannot know the answer to a single one of those questions.
If we could, it would not be the Test.
In a western world whose educational system is increasingly fixated on course work over end of term testing, our young men and women lose the respect necessary to accept the nature of the Test - they want everything to be the same as their years of course work.
Life is not this way. The Test is not this way... --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 20:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

== Route numbering ==

Numbering is broken from Choosey Suzie downwards.

Thanks... hopefully it's fixed now. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 15:05, 4 July 2011 (BST)

Any hope of using the following system throughout the wiki? It looks a lot better and is easier to edit in the long run.

#'''Route name - Fr. 6b'''<br>Route description<br><br>

: I think it looks '''slightly''' better but it is very fiddly to do well especially when you have to add text inbetween route descriptions. The wiki markup becomes very difficult to read when we do this. It's also difficult to mix route descriptions and photos for example and too many <nowiki><BR>s</nowiki> could make our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult. If we were continually updating crags and their routes descriptions then I think that would swing me... but once it's all on the wiki, updates will arrive fairly slowly.

: How about mixing it? It doesn't irritate me much when I see the different formats. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:09, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: Also, looking at the Tirpentwys page, doing it the <nowiki><BR></nowiki> way is going to make it difficult to add proper linkable sub-sections within the route descriptions. The other way means we can be more flexible.

: Another thought: Suppose someone adds a direct finish to a route or more likely squeezes in a route between two others. With the old way of doing things we could, at a pinch, number the route "23A" for example and then have very little editing to do of the crag's topo. I'm assuming here that others are not using "layers" in designing the topos. If you '''are''' using "layers" in your topo designs then this would not be a concern. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 17:25, 4 July 2011 (BST)

''our task to "soup up" the layout with CSS in the future very difficult.'' This statement worries me some.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 22:16, 4 July 2011 (BST)

: No need to worry. The current CSS gives us little control over the positioning of images and doesn't allow us fine control of page layout. Should we ever wish to develop the style and layout further, (and of course we'd all have to agree on this!), then adding html tags (esp. <nowiki> <br> </nowiki>) will make it very awkward.

: Anyway, to be honest I like the simple layout... but I also like keeping our options open. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 23:32, 4 July 2011 (BST)

== Supertramp Video ==

Noticed a few videos popping up on other crag pages, so thought I'd contribute.
Not the best video in the world, but here's a video of an onsite of Supertramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7ro9pll5uk

Only starts half way up unfortunately (just can't find reliably cameramen these days), after the easy bit.
Feel free to use if you feel it will enhance the wiki.

Cheers,
Ben (The Slowest Climber in South Wales).

=Access Issues=

I have just got e following message off a csaving friend of mine:
"Is this you?

Can anyone put me in toutch with the person or persons who have bolted and put hangers into a small quarry face in Trewpentis nature reserve near Pontypool?

Whoever did it has done the most excellent job.

Unfortunatally they also freaked the landowner out and all climbing is prohibited. I have spoken to the landowner and I think it is not impossible to get permissive access.

I don't want to be seen as stealing someone elses toys, so if I can be put in toutch with the climbers resposible I'm sure we can work something out that will make everyone happy."

Source: http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=12219.msg158072%3Btopicseen#new

File talk:Abbey Buttress.jpg

2011-07-10T10:36:22Z

Steven Delaney:

Much graffiti !

Yes... Tim, Del, Al and Roy... they woz all 'ere!

And somebody very artistic - between the starts of routes 6 and 7

I think that one has been there some time.

Heh - nice one. Apparently SD (me) + AW + PR know each other well too! and that's from the original! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 11:36, 10 July 2011 (BST)

Talk:Llyn Brianne

2011-06-25T08:32:24Z

Steven Delaney: Created page with "Good kayaking to be had here too :) --~~~~"

Good kayaking to be had here too :) --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 09:32, 25 June 2011 (BST)

Talk:Ogmore Old

2011-06-17T06:30:09Z

Steven Delaney: /* Ogmore Familiarisation */

2nd Slab; Red line = A Tale of High Adventure - VS

==Ogmore Familiarisation==
Del and Alan - The OSM map here is pretty sparse regarding access details to the individual areas at Ogmore. I've spoken to Alan about this, but did you know that you can edit the OSM database to add areas and paths of interest. For example, check the Map on [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]]. I've added individual crags to the database and also "permissive paths" accessing them.

If either of you require help getting started with editing OSM, then give me a shout. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:21, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I've got an Android (2.2) phone with GPS. What is a good app to begin to use to get stuff onto OSM? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 11:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: You can collect waypoints and tracks with your phone and you can use them to help you edit OSM database. There are three ways to do this (that I know of).
# '''[http://www.openstreetmap.org/ The Web Interface]''' (You'll need to set yourself up with an account). The web interface is not particularly powerful and I find it a bit of a bind to use. Much better is:-
# '''[http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ JOSM]'''. You can work in layers, etc. It's a nice little interface (once you get used to it!!)
# '''[http://merkaartor.be/ Merkaator]'''. Another OSM editor. Although its interface appears a little more agreeable, I foound that I liked JOSM better.

I actually use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] together with JOSM. I look at my GPS tracks in viking and it helps me get an overall view before I commit edits to OSM.

If we can interest users into editing OSM, then I'll add something to th e [[Development]] page. There is a rather steep learning curve tho'.

I'm still at the stage of playing about with an app called 'OSMTracker for android'. I use some other apps too for logging runs, ect, usually with the intention of putting them on MapMyRun. I think OSMTracker will be the best app to get to grips with as it looks set to use offline maps from OSMAnd. You can also annotate. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 07:26, 17 June 2011 (BST)

Also Google 'My Tracks' does a good job too. However does anyone know what the legality is of then uploading the track to OSM? I'm doing my best to avoid atm. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 07:30, 17 June 2011 (BST)

===Ogmore Map===
If you need to know where stuff is you could work it out from this for starters. I know where most of the ab points and cut off tidal points are too.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 11:52, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:Ogmore aerial.jpg]]

It could be done in OSM, but it would require a great deal of work to get that level of detail into OSM. For a start, the coastline would have to be edited and individual crags and footpaths would need to be mapped, all with a GPS.

Perhaps we could produce a static map using the current OSM as a base? I'm pretty sure that we cannot use edited static Google Maps owing to copyright difficulties. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'm certain that Google will take action against us for using their data. I've found a few horror stories during my research - usually to do with phone apps. OSM seems the way forward as we can manipulate the data. The main problem with this is the steep learning curve you've already mentioned. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 12:20, 3 June 2011 (BST)

If OSM editing is going to prove too time consuming, we could, as I mentioned above. use a static map based on the current (or nearly current) OSM. All we could do is add the individula crags to OSM. That'd be easy, just send me the long/lat of each... We could then edit the maps to suit our own purposes, with say [http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP] or [http://www.photoshop.com Photo$hop]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:33, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Alan, I should be able to add individual crags to OSM if you supply a map as above but using Bing Maps instead. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:47, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Like this one?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:oggy2a.jpg]]

Yep, that's the one. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:18, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Sorry to be a pain, but can you add the crag locations to it too? I tried to go from Google Map to OSM in JOSM but it was totally confusing and, I suspect, very prone to errors. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:08, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Hold on... I see you've marked the crags but haven't named them. Will get the names from the other map. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:10, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: OK... I've added the crag locations to OSM, if you ok them, I'll add the long/lats to our [[Template:Googlemap]] and the individual crags should appear on our maps. It would also be good to produce a static map of the area using OSM as a base and editing with graphic packages. Crag locations should show up on OSM fairly soon. See [http://www.openstreetmap.org/ OpenStreetMap]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: They're showing up now. remember to flush your browser's cache. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:32, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Err, how do i flush my casche?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 20:48, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Dunno! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:35, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: In firefox there is a box to click when you clear the history; i.e. tools > clear recent history. However my browser (FF 4.0.1) seems to do it on a F5 refresh. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:50, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: I've now added more detail to the coastline as well... tho' that may well take a little longer to show up. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:42, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: See the following [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/dloads/test.png link] for a suitable map for editing. Note the crag names but also note that my adjusted coastline is not rendering just yet. Will replace the image when it comes through. It's all a bit rough and ready but gives us some idea of what can be done. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 16:28, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: My edited (on OSM) coastline is taking longer to update than I thought. Should be ready soon tho' --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:41, 5 June 2011 (BST)

: Just found out that coastline update happen only every 2 weeks with OSM Mapnik. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 08:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)

: The Mapnik coastline '''still''' hasn't been updated but I've managed to get Maperitive to get some reasonable output. It's '''[http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/bbimages/ogmore-2.png here]''', should anyone wish to make a map from it. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:33, 16 June 2011 (BST)

I can see it, you click on the top + (on right hand margin of the map) and select mapnik--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:02, 16 June 2011 (BST)

: Yes, but the Mapnik rendering hasn't updated to my more detailed coastline yet... apparently coastline updates can take some time. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:06, 16 June 2011 (BST)

==Ogmore Topos==

I'm glad you said not to continue with Ogmore all that time ago. You have been busy! Well done Alan - a sterling effort! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Some of the topos might need checking (i.e. elephant wall goes right at the top?) but i'm sure you already know that? Might be best to get them printed out at some point and passed about perhaps. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Yeah, been meaning to. Apparently Elephant goes right but i think its a better route following the line on the topo.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:31, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Impressive topos! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 07:41, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Cheers--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:31, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Talk:Ogmore Old

2011-06-17T06:26:37Z

Steven Delaney: /* Ogmore Familiarisation */

2nd Slab; Red line = A Tale of High Adventure - VS

==Ogmore Familiarisation==
Del and Alan - The OSM map here is pretty sparse regarding access details to the individual areas at Ogmore. I've spoken to Alan about this, but did you know that you can edit the OSM database to add areas and paths of interest. For example, check the Map on [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]]. I've added individual crags to the database and also "permissive paths" accessing them.

If either of you require help getting started with editing OSM, then give me a shout. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:21, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I've got an Android (2.2) phone with GPS. What is a good app to begin to use to get stuff onto OSM? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 11:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: You can collect waypoints and tracks with your phone and you can use them to help you edit OSM database. There are three ways to do this (that I know of).
# '''[http://www.openstreetmap.org/ The Web Interface]''' (You'll need to set yourself up with an account). The web interface is not particularly powerful and I find it a bit of a bind to use. Much better is:-
# '''[http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ JOSM]'''. You can work in layers, etc. It's a nice little interface (once you get used to it!!)
# '''[http://merkaartor.be/ Merkaator]'''. Another OSM editor. Although its interface appears a little more agreeable, I found that I liked JOSM better.

I actually use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] together with JOSM. I look at my GPS tracks in viking and it helps me get an overall view before I commit edits to OSM.

If we can interest users into editing OSM, then I'll add something to th e [[Development]] page. There is a rather steep learning curve tho'.

I'm still at the stage of playing about with an app called 'OSMTracker for android'. I use some other apps too for logging runs, ect, usually with the intention of putting them on MapMyRun. I think OSMTracker will be the best app to get to grips with as it looks set to use offline maps from OSMAnd. You can also annotate. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 07:26, 17 June 2011 (BST)

===Ogmore Map===
If you need to know where stuff is you could work it out from this for starters. I know where most of the ab points and cut off tidal points are too.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 11:52, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:Ogmore aerial.jpg]]

It could be done in OSM, but it would require a great deal of work to get that level of detail into OSM. For a start, the coastline would have to be edited and individual crags and footpaths would need to be mapped, all with a GPS.

Perhaps we could produce a static map using the current OSM as a base? I'm pretty sure that we cannot use edited static Google Maps owing to copyright difficulties. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'm certain that Google will take action against us for using their data. I've found a few horror stories during my research - usually to do with phone apps. OSM seems the way forward as we can manipulate the data. The main problem with this is the steep learning curve you've already mentioned. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 12:20, 3 June 2011 (BST)

If OSM editing is going to prove too time consuming, we could, as I mentioned above. use a static map based on the current (or nearly current) OSM. All we could do is add the individula crags to OSM. That'd be easy, just send me the long/lat of each... We could then edit the maps to suit our own purposes, with say [http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP] or [http://www.photoshop.com Photo$hop]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:33, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Alan, I should be able to add individual crags to OSM if you supply a map as above but using Bing Maps instead. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:47, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Like this one?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:oggy2a.jpg]]

Yep, that's the one. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:18, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Sorry to be a pain, but can you add the crag locations to it too? I tried to go from Google Map to OSM in JOSM but it was totally confusing and, I suspect, very prone to errors. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:08, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Hold on... I see you've marked the crags but haven't named them. Will get the names from the other map. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:10, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: OK... I've added the crag locations to OSM, if you ok them, I'll add the long/lats to our [[Template:Googlemap]] and the individual crags should appear on our maps. It would also be good to produce a static map of the area using OSM as a base and editing with graphic packages. Crag locations should show up on OSM fairly soon. See [http://www.openstreetmap.org/ OpenStreetMap]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: They're showing up now. remember to flush your browser's cache. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:32, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Err, how do i flush my casche?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 20:48, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Dunno! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:35, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: In firefox there is a box to click when you clear the history; i.e. tools > clear recent history. However my browser (FF 4.0.1) seems to do it on a F5 refresh. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:50, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: I've now added more detail to the coastline as well... tho' that may well take a little longer to show up. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:42, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: See the following [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/dloads/test.png link] for a suitable map for editing. Note the crag names but also note that my adjusted coastline is not rendering just yet. Will replace the image when it comes through. It's all a bit rough and ready but gives us some idea of what can be done. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 16:28, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: My edited (on OSM) coastline is taking longer to update than I thought. Should be ready soon tho' --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:41, 5 June 2011 (BST)

: Just found out that coastline update happen only every 2 weeks with OSM Mapnik. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 08:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)

: The Mapnik coastline '''still''' hasn't been updated but I've managed to get Maperitive to get some reasonable output. It's '''[http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/bbimages/ogmore-2.png here]''', should anyone wish to make a map from it. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 10:33, 16 June 2011 (BST)

I can see it, you click on the top + (on right hand margin of the map) and select mapnik--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:02, 16 June 2011 (BST)

: Yes, but the Mapnik rendering hasn't updated to my more detailed coastline yet... apparently coastline updates can take some time. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:06, 16 June 2011 (BST)

==Ogmore Topos==

I'm glad you said not to continue with Ogmore all that time ago. You have been busy! Well done Alan - a sterling effort! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Some of the topos might need checking (i.e. elephant wall goes right at the top?) but i'm sure you already know that? Might be best to get them printed out at some point and passed about perhaps. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Yeah, been meaning to. Apparently Elephant goes right but i think its a better route following the line on the topo.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:31, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Impressive topos! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 07:41, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Cheers--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:31, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Edwardsville (X1)

2011-06-16T16:50:41Z

Steven Delaney: /* Right Hand Area */

[[Image:Old Map Edwardsville.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Edwardsville Layout]]
[[Contents]]

[[South East Wales Sandstone]]

==BOLTING POLICY==

Common sense should apply! Following the Gower and South East Wales bolting policy [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/?q=bolting_policy (1999-2000)] the crag is quarried Sandstone and therefore new sports routes are allowed. Retro-bolting is allowed but only with the first ascensionists permission. Bolts should be at least 10 mm stainless steel (pref 12 mm following the current [http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2411 BMC guidelines]) or resin type staples.
~Remember to please send in [http://www.southwalesboltfund.co.uk your vital bolt fund contributions]. Without it and your continued support, there will be no quality sports routes or quality bolts for you to fall on.

==PREAMBLE==

A compact sports quarry located high on the mountain near Mount Pleasant. The quarry faces west and is quick drying with all-day sun. A good summer evening venue!

The routes are generally solid on the lower tier. The upper tier is a little looser so avoid straying from the cleaned bolt line and belayers please remember to wear a helmet.

The landowner, his wife and their burly son has spotted climbers while clearing a route on the top tier. After mentioning the quarry is up for sale for a mere 20million, or was it just two?, they expressed concerns about people climbing there due to possible claims against them and also advised people stop climbing there until they received clarification.
They have been referred to the BMC and the access rep has also been informed via a phone call.

[[Image:mount pleasant.jpg|800px|thumb|centre]]

==ACCESS==

From the south, follow the A4054 through Edwardsville until Mount Pleasant is reached. It is recommended that one parks on the southern side of the village of Mount Pleasant.

Walk south along the A4054 until two tracks are seen which lead uphill into the forest. Follow the second and southerly track (in poorer condition than the northern track which leads to Mount Pleasant Crag - X2)upwards past a rusty gate to the lower tier of the quarry.

See Map at bottom of page.

==DESCENTS==

All current routes have lower offs that enable the start position to be gained. Access can be made to the upper tier by a path located at both ends of the lower tier. Going right past the drift mine is probably the better option for a first tie visitor.
Should you require access to the top of the upper tier there is a well trodden path that winds it's way to the top on the left of the lower tier. Lovely views but BEWARE of loose rock and climbers below!

==ROUTES==

(SOME INFO FROM SPORTSCLIMBS.COM)

===LOWER TIER===

====Fertility Cave Area====

''The left hand side of the lower tier sports an impressive cave. The routes are described from the left starting on slabs just outside the cave proper.''

1. '''Monkey Business - Fr.6a+ *'''

Bimble up the left side of slab to an airy finishing arete.

2. '''Flidington Rex - Fr.5+'''

recently re-cleaned and more bolts added.

3. '''Big Bad Baboon - Fr.5+ '''

Shares a start with Flidington Rex. Move right across ' Orangutanatarium' to an arete with a blue sling 'Cone Penetration Test'.

4. '''Orangutarium - Fr.6b *'''

The next route is direct via a line of staples through a technical slab.

5. '''Cone Penetration Test - Fr.6b+'''

The arete to reach a tree with a blue sling.

6. '''Remediation Required - Fr.6b *'''

The cheesy-looking corner gives steep and interesting climbing.

7. '''Fisty Nuts - Fr.7b+ * '''

The horizontal roof crack and slab above the lip of the cave.

8. '''Project'''

The roof with a large padlock on the bolt.

9. '''Fistula - Fr.7a **'''

Superb route via twisting crack and easier but fine headwall.

[[Image:cave topo1.jpg|800px|thumb|centre|Fertility Cave Topo]]

10. '''Rabbit Proof Fence - Fr.6a+'''

Line of staples right of cave to lip of second overhang.

11. '''Uluru - Fr.6a+'''

Pocketed groove just to the right taking roof on right.

12. '''Cox 2 Inhibitor - Fr.6b+ *'''

Direct behind larch tree via pockets and tricky bulge.

13. '''Proton Pump - Fr.6a'''

Shallow groove with steep bulge

14. '''Voltarol Vigour Fr.6a'''

Line of staples to right to higher lower-off.

15. '''Sucking Dick's Lofenac - Fr.5+'''

the left-hand side of the slab right of the corner.

16. '''Co-Codamol Crunch - Fr.5+'''

right side of slab to same lower-off.

17. '''Tramadol Trip - Fr.6a *'''

Pockets in a faint groove left of a slanting crack.

====Right Hand Slabs====

[[Image:Paul Prefers.jpg|350px|thumb|right|Rob McAllister on Paul Prefers Pretty Pussy - Fr.6a+]]

1. '''Paracetamol Punch - Fr.6b'''

Pockets to start to gain slab with a bulge above.

2. '''Ed Less - Fr.6a'''

Deep pocket to pass overhang then slab above.

3. '''Guillotine - Fr.5+'''

Corner above earth bank.

4. '''Final Cut - Fr.6b'''

R of earth bank. Up left to a pocket then tricky move to slabby arete.

5. '''Primal Cut - Fr.6b'''

Short wall to 'stand up' finale.

6. '''Unnamed - Fr.6b'''

Difficult start to ledge then easy.

7. '''The Puddling - Fr.6a *'''

Scooped wall to overhangs, sharp arete and crack above. Unfortunately the lower off is well below crag standard.

8. '''Ed More - Fr.5'''

Rounded slab work, worthwhile. Unfortunately shares a lower off with ''The Puddling''.

9. '''Aqua Mule Show - Fr.5'''

V groove, short slab and rib above overlap.

10. '''Known only Unto God - Fr.6a+'''

Easy start to face with hard finale to belay (krab has recently been stolen).

11. '''Oolacunta - Fr.6a'''

High blunt arete.

12. '''Uber Gruppen Fuhrer - Fr.4'''

Easy slab. Staples on terrace above for those wishing to top out.

====Drift Mine Wall====

''There are three further routes over to the right, tucked in behind some trees''

1. '''Daddy's Little Lemon Licker Fr. 6a'''

Start right of mine entrance. Up and left to lower-off.

2. '''Get Nutted E2 5c'''

Twin diagonal cracks.

2. '''Homme de L'elephant Fr.5+'''

A line of staples to the right.

===UPPER TIER===

====Left Hand Slabs====

''On the left side of the Upper Tier is a raised platform, above which is a sweep of slabs. The pronounced cracks and horizontal breaks make this section very 'Stanage-like' at first appearance. The routes get progressively better rightwards. ''

[[Image:Left Hand Slabs.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

1. '''Polari Cartso - Fr.5+'''

Tricky start on undercut slab, past tree with sling.

2. '''Rhondda Tan - Fr.5'''

Slab with horizontal breaks

3. '''Steroid Vest - Fr.6a'''

More Slab Climbing

4. '''Back to Black - Fr.5+'''

Wide Crack - still a little loose and eliminate.

5. '''Johnny Bionc - 6a'''

Better. Finger jams in vertical crack to gain slab

6. '''Slabadabadoo - Fr.5'''

Slab to oversized lower-off chain

7. '''Fisting the night away - Fr.5+'''

Entertaining. The twisting crack
[[Image:Fisting the Night Away.jpg|700px|thumb|centre]]

====Undercut Slabs Area====

''The high undercut slab contains three of the best routes hereabout.''

1. '''Paul Prefers Pretty Pussy - Fr.6a+'''

Left hand line with a peg low down. Swing back and forth around the arete until a crack in the slab is reached. Single snap-gate lower off.

2. '''Monkey Stole My Face - Fr.6a+ *'''

Central leaning crack line. Good dynamic fun.

3. '''Balls of Damocles - Fr.6b *'''

Start in 'V' groove and rock over leftwards onto the slab using slopey crimps, technical.
[[Image:Undercut slabs and crud area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

====Crud Area====

''Reasons not to climb near blast holes soon become apparent.''

1. '''A Dream of Wet Rabbits - Fr.5'''

The right side of the groove to a low L.O.

2. '''Boy George V - Fr.6a'''

Surmount the giant egg to a ledge. Shares a L.O. with ''A Dream''.

3. '''Rent Boys and Radiators - (XS) Fr.6a+'''

A poor route. Approach the long & shattered vertical shothole with care.

4. '''We Like Hot Beaver - Fr.6a'''

Another adventure through questionable rock - but improved since the first ascent.

5. '''Hot Little Minx - Fr.6a'''

The line of goldie hangers. Just left of the corner to a high L.O.

==== Central Area ====
[[Image:Central Area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

1. '''The Pleasant Mount - Fr.6c+ *'''

A long and good looking route.

2. '''Mounting at the Edge - Fr.6b+ *'''

Branches rightwards from ''The Pleasant Mount'' after bolt No.2.

3. '''Man in Honda over yonder in Rhondda - Fr.6b'''

Up the stepped arete to a hard-to-clip belay

4. '''Poke Her Face - Fr.5+'''

Surprisingly delicate ascent of the short arete.

====Right Hand Area====

1. '''Over the Top - Fr.6a'''

Climb a bulge and then a slab above ledge. Awkward to clip the lower off.

2. '''Bull Camp - Fr.6a'''

To lower-off on right of roof.

3. '''I love valleys girls - Fr.6a (& Bull Camp Fr.5+)'''

Continuation of Bull Camp - Steep climbing on the left of Henry Allingham following a good line of bolts to a slab high up . Climb through the shale band and over the last overhang to reach a good lower off situated back. 15m

4. '''...but I couldn't eat a whole one - Fr.6a'''

A link up. Climb Henry Allingham but finish up left passing a small tree to the small roof. Finish as for 'I love ...' 10m

5. '''Henry Allingham - Fr.5c'''

The left hand groove line to the roof, then move out right to an exposed mantle shelf finish. Henry Allingham was the oldest WW1 soldier still alive at the time of the first ascent (trench warfare). 10m.

6. '''Harry Patch - Fr.6a+'''

The slab and exposed finish to the lower off on the roof right of Henry A. Harry patch was the oldest living RAF officer from WW1. 10m

7. '''Chloe's Crack - Fr.5+'''

Del's romance wanted a route named after her, so here it is. Located on the far right of the crags upper tier there is a slanting crack/open groove below an overhanging lower off. Climb onto the ledge of Harry Patch, move right to the groove and follow the obvious cleaned crack to the lower off in the overhanging top-out. A great climb to practice using traditional protection (i.e. nuts/cams) as well as clipping the bolts. In fact the nervous leader may need to after the last bolt! 10m

8 '''Emiliano Mercado del Toro - Fr.5+'''

The arête to the right of Chloe's Crack. In name of the oldest authenticated military veteran, from any conflict, ever to have lived. Shared L.O. with ''Chloe's Crack''10m
[[Image:Righthand area.jpg|600px|thumb|centre]]

''There is some loose rock before the next two routes:''

9. '''Bonaroo Lally Tappers - Fr.5+'''

The slabby face to the left of the final arete in the right of the quarry.

10. '''Meat Fly vs The Custard Cannon - Fr.6a'''

Right of the final arete in the right of the quarry. Climb deep crack and hand traverse to finish up slab above.

==FIRST ASCENTS==

<font size="1">

'''UPPER TIER'''

'''Left Hand Slabs'''

1. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.11.2008

2. R. Thomas, D. Emanuel 00.00.2008

3. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

4. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

5. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

6. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

7. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

'''Drift Mine Area'''

1. D. Emanuel 00.00.2009

2. R. Thomas 00.00. 2008

3. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas, K. Davies 00.00.2008

'''Undercut Slabs Area'''

1. R. Thomas 00.00.2009

2. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2009

3. R. Thomas 00.00.2008

'''Crud Area'''

1. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas 00.00.2008

2. R. Thomas 00.00.2009

3 R. Thomas 00.00.2008

4. R. Thomas, D. Emanuel 00.00.2009

5. G. Gibson, R. Thomas 01.05.2009

'''Central Area'''

1. R. Thomas, G. Gibson 01.05.2009

2. G. Gibson, R. Thomas 02.05.2009

3. R. Thomas, G. Gibson 02.05.2009

4. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas, G. Gibson 02.05.2009

'''Right Hand Area'''

1. D. Emanuel? R. Thomas? G. Gibson? May 2009

2. R. Thomas, G. Gibson, D. Emanuel June 2009

3. Steven Delaney & Chloe Whittall Sept 2009

4. Gary Lewis & Steven Delaney 01.04.2009

5. Gary Lewis & Steven Delaney 01.04.2009

6. Gary Lewis & Steven Delaney 11.03.2009

7. Steven Delaney & Gary Lewis 11.03.2009

8. Steven Delaney & Gary Lewis 01.04.2009

9. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas, G. Gibson 02.05.2009

10. D. Emanuel, R. Thomas, G. Gibson 02.05.2009

</font>

==MAP==

The crag located at 51°40'19.75"N / 3°19'35.68"W as shown:

<googlemap version="0.9" lat="51.676743" lon="-3.332103" zoom="15">
(A) 51.672216, -3.326561
Edwardsville X1
51.67695, -3.332258
Parking at Edwardsville
</googlemap>

Talk:Ogmore Old

2011-06-04T09:50:10Z

Steven Delaney:

2nd Slab; Red line = A Tale of High Adventure - VS

==Ogmore Familiarisation==
Del and Alan - The OSM map here is pretty sparse regarding access details to the individual areas at Ogmore. I've spoken to Alan about this, but did you know that you can edit the OSM database to add areas and paths of interest. For example, check the Map on [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]]. I've added individual crags to the database and also "permissive paths" accessing them.

If either of you require help getting started with editing OSM, then give me a shout. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:21, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I've got an Android (2.2) phone with GPS. What is a good app to begin to use to get stuff onto OSM? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 11:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: You can collect waypoints and tracks with your phone and you can use them to help you edit OSM database. There are three ways to do this (that I know of).
# '''[http://www.openstreetmap.org/ The Web Interface]''' (You'll need to set yourself up with an account). The web interface is not particularly powerful and I find it a bit of a bind to use. Much better is:-
# '''[http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ JOSM]'''. You can work in layers, etc. It's a nice little interface (once you get used to it!!)
# '''[http://merkaartor.be/ Merkaator]'''. Another OSM editor. Although its interface appears a little more agreeable, I found that I liked JOSM better.

I actually use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] together with JOSM. I look at my GPS tracks in viking and it helps me get an overall view before I commit edits to OSM.

If we can interest users into editing OSM, then I'll add something to the [[Development]] page. There is a rather steep learning curve tho'.

===Ogmore Map===
If you need to know where stuff is you could work it out from this for starters. I know where most of the ab points and cut off tidal points are too.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 11:52, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:Ogmore aerial.jpg]]

It could be done in OSM, but it would require a great deal of work to get that level of detail into OSM. For a start, the coastline would have to be edited and individual crags and footpaths would need to be mapped, all with a GPS.

Perhaps we could produce a static map using the current OSM as a base? I'm pretty sure that we cannot use edited static Google Maps owing to copyright difficulties. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'm certain that Google will take action against us for using their data. I've found a few horror stories during my research - usually to do with phone apps. OSM seems the way forward as we can manipulate the data. The main problem with this is the steep learning curve you've already mentioned. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 12:20, 3 June 2011 (BST)

If OSM editing is going to prove too time consuming, we could, as I mentioned above. use a static map based on the current (or nearly current) OSM. All we could do is add the individula crags to OSM. That'd be easy, just send me the long/lat of each... We could then edit the maps to suit our own purposes, with say [http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP] or [http://www.photoshop.com Photo$hop]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:33, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Alan, I should be able to add individual crags to OSM if you supply a map as above but using Bing Maps instead. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:47, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Like this one?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:oggy2a.jpg]]

Yep, that's the one. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:18, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Sorry to be a pain, but can you add the crag locations to it too? I tried to go from Google Map to OSM in JOSM but it was totally confusing and, I suspect, very prone to errors. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:08, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Hold on... I see you've marked the crags but haven't named them. Will get the names from the other map. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:10, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: OK... I've added the crag locations to OSM, if you ok them, I'll add the long/lats to our [[Template:Googlemap]] and the individual crags should appear on our maps. It would also be good to produce a static map of the area using OSM as a base and editing with graphic packages. Crag locations should show up on OSM fairly soon. See [http://www.openstreetmap.org/ OpenStreetMap]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: They're showing up now. remember to flush your browser's cache. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:32, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Err, how do i flush my casche?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 20:48, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Dunno! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 00:35, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: In firefox there is a box to click when you clear the history; i.e. tools > clear recent history. However my browser (FF 4.0.1) seems to do it on a F5 refresh. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 10:50, 4 June 2011 (BST)

: I've now added more detail to the coastline as well... tho' that may well take a little longer to show up. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:42, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: See the following [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/dloads/test.png link] for a suitable map for editing. Note the crag names but also note that my adjusted coastline is not rendering just yet. Will replace the image when it comes through. It's all a bit rough and ready but gives us some idea of what can be done. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 16:28, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==Ogmore Topos==
I'm glad you said not to continue with Ogmore all that time ago. You have been busy! Well done Alan - a sterling effort! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Some of the topos might need checking (i.e. elephant wall goes right at the top?) but i'm sure you already know that? Might be best to get them printed out at some point and passed about perhaps. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Impressive topos! --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 07:41, 4 June 2011 (BST)

Main Page

2011-06-03T22:47:53Z

Steven Delaney: /* Rock Climbing in South Wales */

[[Image:Swmc gb2.png|900px|center|alt=South Wales Mountaineering Club - Guidebook Wiki|link=]]

{{#tree:id=maintree|
*'''[[Contents New|Contents]]'''<br>
*'''[[General]]''' - How to submit information and the obligatory disclaimer<br>
*'''[[Super Index]]''' - A list of pages in the Wiki.<br>
*'''[[Best For..]]''' - A locals guide of where to go and when}}

{| class="wikitable" style="width:1050px; float:centre; height:200px" border="1"
|-
! South Wales Latest News
|-
|
*'''April 2011''' - Ravens nesting at '''[[Navigation Quarry - Cilfynydd]]''', see page for details of restrictions.
*'''03 April 2011''' - Re-gearing and crag clean up at '''[[Oxwich#Oxwich_Bay_Quarry_South|Oxwich South Quarry]]''' completed thanks to Stu Llewellyn (local bmc rep), Nik Goile and Steve and S.W.B.F. This summer get there and get clipping, you know it makes sense!
*'''15 February 2011''' - The next BMC Cymru (South) meeting will be taking place at Boulders Climbing Centre in Cardfiff on 15th Feb (Tuesday). Details are [http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Event.aspx?id=471 '''here''']
*'''22 December 2010''' - '''[http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?p=13573#13573 Craig-y-Llyn found to be notified as a SSSI !].'''


*'''[http://www.climbingstation.co.uk/ The Climbing Station]''' (bouldering wall) now open
*'''ONGOING - [[Bolt policy on Gower]]''' - Consultation following BMC S Wales meeting.
*'''03 November 2010 - BMC S Wales meeting''' - Details at [http://community.thebmc.co.uk/Event.aspx?id=402].
*'''October 2010 - The WICC is re-opening''' - '''[[SWMC Member Discounts]] on Wednesday 6th October'''
*'''September 2010 - [[Ridgeway]] Quarry ''' - ''New Sandstone Quarry. - (9. New Routes grade Fr.6a to 6c+.) ''
*'''August 2010''' - New Gower Sports Crags - '''[[Pantheon]]''', '''[[Bowen's Parlour]]''' & '''[[Paviland Far West]]''' - ''Grades Fr.5 to 8a !''
*'''July 2010 - [[Castle Upon Alun]] Quarry ''' - ''The excellent steep limestone slab pitches have now been regeared - (12 routes grade Fr.5 to 7a.) Thanks to all who helped out.''
*'''July 2010 - [[BMC Representatives Meet Dinas Rock Landowners]]'''


*'''April 2010 - Recent de-bolting of routes at [[Taffs Well]]''' - ''Calcite Walls''
*'''March 2010 - [[Crymlyn Quarries]] ''' - ''3. New Sandstone Quarries. - (50+ New Routes grade Fr.5 to 7a+.) ''
*'''February 2010 - [[Lower_off_theft_on_the_rise._Recent_thefts_from_Navigation,_Edwardsville_and_Dyffryn_crags|Lower Off Thefts]]''' - ''Recent thefts from Navigation, Edwardsville and Dyffryn crags''

|}

[[Image:Chris Sheppard cutting loose.jpg|650px|thumb|right|''Pioneers of the Hypnotic Groove'' Fr.7b [[Foxhole Cove]]. Climber: Chris Sheppard. Photograph: Chris Wyatt.]]
== Rock Climbing in South Wales ==

Historically overshadowed by it's neighbour, Pembroke, some of the best routes in the UK are located within S.E. Wales and Gower. It's worth a visit or ten! The climbing ranges from 'exciting' to super safe bolt ladders on limestone or sandstone. There is something for everyone. The climbing can be split into 4 sections; [[Gower|Gower peninsula]], [[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E Wales Sandstone]], [[Inland Limestone]], [[Bridgend Area]]:

'''[[Gower|Gower]]''' is set in one of the most beautiful coastal areas of Wales and contains many fine trad routes from VDiffs to the upper Extremes. If trad isn't your thing then there are even cliffs dedicated to sport climbing! The crags are mostly in relaxed and scenic positions which are positively covered in three star routes.

'''[[South East Wales Sandstone|S.E Wales Sandstone]]''' climbing is on the hard indurated sandstone of the [[wikipedia:South_Wales_coalfield|South Wales Coalfield]]. Generally this means either bolted routes in quarries, or pleasant natural (read as non-bolted) outcrops. The quarries range from small bites in the hillside to huge monolithic wastelands. Crags are often remnants of the industrial heritage belonging to the South Wales valleys ... but there is something actually pleasant about all this - think [http://slate.wetpaint.com/page/Never+Never+Land?t=anon Dinorwig] with trees!

'''[[Inland Limestone]]''' can contrast in character quite radically. For example, inland sport climbing on steep and solid natural limestone may be found at [[Dinas Rock]], whilst vertical to slabby quarried rock is in plentiful supply around [[Taffs Well]], just off the M4 north of Cardiff.

'''[[Bridgend Area]]''' is for those with salt water in their veins. Coastal bolt clipping can be found at [[Witches Point]], or at the other end of the adventure spectrum there is nationally important [[Ogmore]], which like Marmite ... you will either love or hate.

== Bouldering in South Wales ==
South Wales bouldering is yet to be developed to the level of North Wales, or the peak, yet it offers a fine spectrum of climbing for experienced and novice boulderers alike. [[Kennelgarth Wall]] at Dinas offers some great safe problems rewarding strength and subtle technique. [[The Trench]] at Ogmore is unique - grit shapes without friction. The Gower is a 'mine' of easier problems - and some hard ones - with the additional attractions of swimming and jumping at high tide.

The guide is far from complete but is complemented by [http://www.swbg.co.uk www.swbg.co.uk]. One of the problems is that we keep discovering nice new areas to boulder at!

== How You Can Get Involved ==
Anyone interested in rock-climbing and bouldering is welcome to get involved in the development of this wiki.

We are interested in recruiting editors to update pages and to supply news and photographs. The only requirements are that you have something of interest that you are willing to share and that you can work together with other editors to produce an up-to-date and useful resource for climbers both in S. Wales and further afield.

If you are interested, create yourself an account by clicking on the link at the top right of this page.

For furthur info, contact '''[mailto:craginfo@skyhook.ath.cx SMWC Craginfo]'''

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Talk:Crymlyn Quarries: Out-takes and Extras

2011-06-03T22:42:22Z

Steven Delaney:

Hey Alan! I like this 'History Page'! :-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:39, 2 June 2011 (BST)

It was Simons Idea, after I told him there were pictures of the quarries in their former glory!--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:51, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Great idea tbh! Thanks for putting it up. The main wall looks like a jungle! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:41, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Talk:Crymlyn Quarries: Out-takes and Extras

2011-06-03T22:41:25Z

Steven Delaney:

Hey Alan! I like this 'History Page'! :-) --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:39, 2 June 2011 (BST)

It was Simons Idea, after I told him there were pictures of the quarries in their former glory!--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:51, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Great idea tbh! Thanks for putting it up. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:41, 3 June 2011 (BST)

File:Oggy2a.jpg

2011-06-03T22:40:36Z

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File:Western Crag Left topo 01.jpg

2011-06-03T22:40:11Z

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File:Tiger Bay Topo 01.jpg

2011-06-03T22:39:44Z

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File:Scutch Buttress Topo 1.jpg

2011-06-03T22:39:38Z

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File:Popular End Topo 1.jpg

2011-06-03T22:39:33Z

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File:Western Crag Right topo 01.jpg

2011-06-03T22:39:22Z

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File:The Castle Area Topo 01.jpg

2011-06-03T22:39:17Z

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File talk:Phaser Wall.jpg

2011-06-03T22:38:53Z

Steven Delaney:

Hey it's me (in red) and Rob (in blue). Do you have this photo with the tip in it? Is it photo-shopped(it looks very high colour and contrast)?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 21:26, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I know you almost killed me with a rock. Hope it wasn't intentional :P I've put the original as well up - so feel free to have a play about. I can add the lens correction to straighten the top/sides if required. You'll need to zoom in a bit to get the clarity. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:00, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Talk:Ogmore Old

2011-06-03T22:37:27Z

Steven Delaney: /* Ogmore Topos */

2nd Slab; Red line = A Tale of High Adventure - VS

==Ogmore Familiarisation==
Del and Alan - The OSM map here is pretty sparse regarding access details to the individual areas at Ogmore. I've spoken to Alan about this, but did you know that you can edit the OSM database to add areas and paths of interest. For example, check the Map on [[Hollow_Top_To_Port_Eynon|Hollow Top To Port Eynon]]. I've added individual crags to the database and also "permissive paths" accessing them.

If either of you require help getting started with editing OSM, then give me a shout. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 11:21, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I've got an Android (2.2) phone with GPS. What is a good app to begin to use to get stuff onto OSM? --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 11:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: You can collect waypoints and tracks with your phone and you can use them to help you edit OSM database. There are three ways to do this (that I know of).
# '''[http://www.openstreetmap.org/ The Web Interface]''' (You'll need to set yourself up with an account). The web interface is not particularly powerful and I find it a bit of a bind to use. Much better is:-
# '''[http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ JOSM]'''. You can work in layers, etc. It's a nice little interface (once you get used to it!!)
# '''[http://merkaartor.be/ Merkaator]'''. Another OSM editor. Although its interface appears a little more agreeable, I found that I liked JOSM better.

I actually use [http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/ Viking] together with JOSM. I look at my GPS tracks in viking and it helps me get an overall view before I commit edits to OSM.

If we can interest users into editing OSM, then I'll add something to the [[Development]] page. There is a rather steep learning curve tho'.

===Ogmore Map===
If you need to know where stuff is you could work it out from this for starters. I know where most of the ab points and cut off tidal points are too.--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 11:52, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:Ogmore aerial.jpg]]

It could be done in OSM, but it would require a great deal of work to get that level of detail into OSM. For a start, the coastline would have to be edited and individual crags and footpaths would need to be mapped, all with a GPS.

Perhaps we could produce a static map using the current OSM as a base? I'm pretty sure that we cannot use edited static Google Maps owing to copyright difficulties. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:06, 3 June 2011 (BST)

I'm certain that Google will take action against us for using their data. I've found a few horror stories during my research - usually to do with phone apps. OSM seems the way forward as we can manipulate the data. The main problem with this is the steep learning curve you've already mentioned. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 12:20, 3 June 2011 (BST)

If OSM editing is going to prove too time consuming, we could, as I mentioned above. use a static map based on the current (or nearly current) OSM. All we could do is add the individula crags to OSM. That'd be easy, just send me the long/lat of each... We could then edit the maps to suit our own purposes, with say [http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP] or [http://www.photoshop.com Photo$hop]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:33, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Alan, I should be able to add individual crags to OSM if you supply a map as above but using Bing Maps instead. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 12:47, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Like this one?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 13:13, 3 June 2011 (BST)

[[File:oggy2a.jpg]]

Yep, that's the one. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 13:18, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Sorry to be a pain, but can you add the crag locations to it too? I tried to go from Google Map to OSM in JOSM but it was totally confusing and, I suspect, very prone to errors. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:08, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: Hold on... I see you've marked the crags but haven't named them. Will get the names from the other map. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:10, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: OK... I've added the crag locations to OSM, if you ok them, I'll add the long/lats to our [[Template:Googlemap]] and the individual crags should appear on our maps. It would also be good to produce a static map of the area using OSM as a base and editing with graphic packages. Crag locations should show up on OSM fairly soon. See [http://www.openstreetmap.org/ OpenStreetMap]. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:30, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: They're showing up now. remember to flush your browser's cache. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:32, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Err, how do i flush my casche?--[[User:Alan rosier|Alan rosier]] 20:48, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: I've now added more detail to the coastline as well... tho' that may well take a little longer to show up. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 14:42, 3 June 2011 (BST)

: See the following [http://www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk/g_book/dloads/test.png link] for a suitable map for editing. Note the crag names but also note that my adjusted coastline is not rendering just yet. Will replace the image when it comes through. It's all a bit rough and ready but gives us some idea of what can be done. --[[User:Tim Hoddy|Tim Hoddy]] 16:28, 3 June 2011 (BST)

==Ogmore Topos==
I'm glad you said not to continue with Ogmore all that time ago. You have been busy! Well done Alan - a sterling effort! --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)

Some of the topos might need checking (i.e. elephant wall goes right at the top?) but i'm sure you already know that? Might be best to get them printed out at some point and passed about perhaps. --[[User:Steven Delaney|Del]] 23:03, 3 June 2011 (BST)